Actor William Sadler Talks About Shawshank Redemption, Bill & Ted, Die Hard 2, and More

Greg Staffa: 0:28

My guest this episode is actor Bill Sadler. He is best known for roles on Die Hard 2, and the Shawshank Redemption. Bill, it's great to have you on.

Bill Sadler: 0:37

It's great to be here, Greg,

Greg Staffa: 0:39

I fully admit I'm a little.. not nervous. But I always feel bad when I have to interview someone of your caliber, because Chris Farley used to do a skit on Saturday Night Live, where he interviewed famous celebrities. And his interviews were basically like, you remember that time when you did this? And they go, yes. That was awesome. And when I knew I was talking to you, that's kind of my reaction was like, remember that rooftop scene and Shawshank Redemption. That was awesome. And I feel bad for you.

Bill Sadler: 1:17

That's okay. I love Chris Farley,

Greg Staffa: 1:19

There's, there's not one question about Shashank that no one has ever asked. Yeah, I mean, there's not gonna be "a wow, that's a really great question. Thanks for asking that one about that movie that came out 27 years ago". So I'm always kind of feel bad for these guys. Because everyone goes to the same talking points from I try to avoid that a little bit. But thanks for joining us. Tell me a little bit about what got you started in acting. I was doing music first I was.

Bill Sadler: 1:46

I was in a garage band. Back when they first got going back in you know, the late 60s. I was in a band called The nightriders K n g i h t R y d e r and we I was in a folk band, I was in a garage band. I was I froze for a long time there in high school, I played the banjo and told jokes. And I went around buffalo as a sort of a, I did a stand up thing as buffalo as banjo Bill Sadler, which was, which was fun, and stand up is that, as you may know, as is, that's a hard business. You're writing all your own material. And you know, you're out there kind of, you know, balls to the wall, you just kind of make it if it goes bad, it's all over your face. But, and then I had an I had a, an English teacher named Dan Larkin in high school who suggested I was clearly trying to get onstage in some fashion, rather. And he said, Why don't you try out for this play. And play that you're my senior year in high school was Harvey, and I audition and I got the lead role as Elwood. And that was and that was really fun. I was I mean, it was genuinely, I was surprised at how, how easily it came to me, you know, slipping into this character and playing him in front of people was it was it was easy. And it was, and it was really, really fun.

Greg Staffa: 3:20

And are you doing it for the attention? Or is it the being someone else? losing yourself and, and going into these roles? What was the rush that you got from it?

Bill Sadler: 3:30

Well, it was I'm sure it was a bit of both. At first, this the second play that I did, losing myself in another person's character was I think the big was the big attraction for me because the second character the second play that I ever did was called the Subject Was Roses, which is a Pulitzer Prize winning little three person drama. And, and I was I was 18 at the time. And I was, let me see, how do I explain this? I was suddenly in order to play in order to play these characters you have to you look at what they say, and you have to peel it back like an onion, you have to figure out how would you have to be feeling to say something like that, you know, you have to try to understand all of the circumstances that brings you to say, you know, to have this fight with your mom, or whatever it is. And I just and I found it therapeutic. I really, it was it was educational. It was the first time in my life that anybody had addressed and has seriously talked about human emotions and and why people behave the way they behave. And I just found I found the whole process of taking apart characters and discovering them. Fascinating. It was a world that I I seriously needed to delve into and so then That was the big draw was that not only was it fun to, to get into these characters, it was educational for an 18 year old. You know, I was dumb as a sack of hammers. And this was a way of understanding people.

Greg Staffa: 5:15

So it's almost like a therapeutic your case study and characters that you were playing, almost from like,

Bill Sadler: 5:22

well, exactly, exactly. My, I mean, my parents were going through a divorce at the time, and there was, you know, there was a lot going on in my life. I don't understand much about themselves or the world. Yeah, at that point. And I, I just found it a wonderful, safe place to explore my own feelings and, and, and everybody else's. So I took to it right away.

Greg Staffa: 5:52

Now to jump forward a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you've been acting for years. Now, when you get a role, like, God friended me, do you have that same approach that you had back then? Where you're, you know, you're only on for an episode or two? Are you still doing that kind of in depth breakdown? Or is it gotten to the point where it's my role, what's my character, let's do it.

Bill Sadler: 6:15

Some of it, a lot of it comes easier. Now. They have to, I have to admit that there's, there's still a discovery process, you have to figure out who these people are, that you're playing and, and how they, how they interact with everyone else, you know, you you make, I make choices now. But I make choices. Now, as an older man, I understand. I understand myself better than I did, then I understand these characters. And I also understand what the, what the episode needs what they want. So use, in some cases, you feel a little like a session player, you know, you go in, you bring your guitar into the studio, and they they say, We need you know, we need a fill here and, and a solo there. And you know, and you listen to the song a few times and you say I, I think I know exactly what you want. And I and I take a shot at it. And I'm like more often than not, I can. I can I can read what they need.

Greg Staffa: 7:20

So you're doing the plays, then brought you on to this.

Bill Sadler: 7:23

Oh goodness, what was that second play led me to four years at Genesee State University College of Geneseo where I studied acting. I did tons and tons of plays. And then two years of, I got a scholarship to go to Cornell and study acting for two more years. And then I moved to New York and did theater for 11 years. And then I did my first movie. So I ramped up. But I really took the long road out to Hollywood. By the by the time I was, at the time I did my first movie, I had been acting for quite a long time in LA, I'd been on Broadway for a year and a half in Biloxi blues. I had, I knew, I knew quite a bit about acting. I didn't know anything about cameras. And that was the that was a huge adjustment for me. I took me the first couple of movies to figure out, they were trying to take my picture and you have to know you have to give them your face and

Greg Staffa: 8:30

theatres. You don't have do overs or you can't just say you know, try this again. It was always what's out there is what's out there. You can't do retakes or stuff like that during the middle of a play.

Bill Sadler: 8:41

Right. Right. And you're, you know, you're working without a net to this. There's no one gonna yell cut. There's no, there's no second take for that audience that night on the first shot. Or it doesn't happen that night for that audience. You know, and I it's still the only advice that I give young actors is do some theater. I found that a great training ground for the work ethic. You come to the theater. Ready, you have to come to to the theater ready.

Greg Staffa: 9:19

You also have to over prepare.

Bill Sadler: 9:22

Yeah, yeah, you have to get there. You know, you not only have to know your lines and what have you, you get there early enough to warm up. So that you know is the first act to warm up for the second act. You hit the you know, you hit the stage already hot. And there are people you know there are 1100 people out there that paid a lot of money to see this play. And they want to see the one that they read about in the New York Times, six months ago. You know, they they will have the same experience and you have to you have to somehow cook it up again. Every Call every every night, eight times a week, whether you've got a headache, or had a fight with your wife, or, you know, you have to haul it up somehow and do it. And I found that, that kind of that kind of work ethic has, has made the movie business much easier.

Greg Staffa: 10:24

Great lesson. I mean, I remember, you know, growing up learning customer service, my boss would always say, you know, just give you a bad experience with one person, the next customer doesn't know what they experienced, they don't know about that history. So the first interaction you have with them, the first time they see you, it's all fresh to them, and they don't know what you're bringing with you, as far as the emotion and stuff like that, you got to believe it all with that former customer and bring it on the same as you would they won versus, you know, performance number 500, you have to be the same?

Bill Sadler: 10:56

Well, exactly. It's like, I mean, it's like an athlete, you know, you have a bad game, you, you know, you get crushed out there on the baseball field, you have to shake it off and step up again, you know, you have to bring it, then you have to in the theater just teaches you that. And the other thing of the theater, I think that theater does is you have time, because there's a month, usually a month of rehearsals before you go on, in front of an audience, you have time to examine the characters and the moments and fine, you know, play with the details, discover these characters and these scenes, together with this team of actors, you're a team, right? There no movie stars in the theater. And then because when you get to the movies, there's no time. There's no rehearsal, you you show up on the set. And if you're lucky, you meet the actor, you're going to play who's going to play your brother, the morning the of that you're going to shoot the scene. And you have, you somehow have to make all of those decisions very quickly and mostly on your own. And I found that that, that all of those years of examining scripts and figuring people these characters out, has made it much much easier for me in those situations. You mentioned God friended me, there's no rehearsal is your you get cast and you show up and they put you in a costume. And you you walk through the scene a couple of times with your fellow actors and they you know you decide he's going to come in on this line, walk over to the desk then he's going to sit down on that line and you can conversation will continue and cut that's the scene. And that's about that's about the rehearsal you're going to get so anything you're going to bring in terms of in terms of the human moments of the scene, you got to find them you have to you know, you have to find them on the on the run you know,

Greg Staffa: 13:14

When you take on a role you find a little bit about your character. Do you usually look into these shows and have an idea of what the shows are about Are you a fan of some of the roles that you take or is it more Tell me about my character let me figure out who I am in in the scene not much outside of that universe.

Bill Sadler: 13:33

I said when I did Deep Space Nine I wasn't that I had not watched I didn't watch Deep Space Nine but I was a Star Trek fan. I knew you know I knew about that universe and I was but mostly I focus on mostly I focus on the character you know my my job what what I need to bring to it when I did Iron Man three I was I was already a fan of the Iron Man movies I loved I thought they were phenomenal the first couple of Iron Man movies were just killed me I thought there was so fun so I knew the universe I knew that I knew I knew the size of the stage that we were going to be on but after that you've you've I focus on my what I'm responsible for which is my character his words his actions, you know holding up his end of the scene, anything I anything I can bring to it that might be more that might add fun or add tension or add suspense or that kind of thing.

Greg Staffa: 14:37

Have you ever been cast in something that you really didn't know anything about? You did your scene and then kinda like you know what, that was fun. I want to keep on following along with what's going on even though I'm not a part of you feel a part of these shows when you're when you're only on an episode or two or is it just a job that you focused on you're seeing you did the best you could and then it's on to the next project.

Bill Sadler: 15:00

It's a it's a bit of both some of these some of these I mean, I will I'll admit it some of them some of these shows were just a job you know, I was lucky I'm an actor for hire and you know they needed to they needed a villain for this episode or they needed a child molester for that episode or no and I don't I have a lot invested in how well I play these things, how much of myself I bring to the game. But after that, I generally let go of the show.

Greg Staffa: 15:34

And just to be clear, you've also played

Bill Sadler: 15:35

There was a there was a stretch there. When I priests let's not focused on all the negative I enjoy you and God friended me I don't know if that was just for the good or not, but I enjoyed seeing you even though you're kind of the antagonists to everything that w s going on, but still is enjoya le part to see you and that's the last thing I remember seeing you in. played I played the priest in that I played a priest in a show called Bull in a few episodes, or in maybe in one episode, but it was a great episode. But he was a very good man. And then I played and then I got a film where I also played a priest so you know the universe is trying to tell me something

Greg Staffa: 16:17

I just wanted to offset your comment about being the child molester guy. Do you have a preference like the bad guys are usually more intellectually complex? Do you like bad guys are good guys doesn't matter. You kind of like to trade off

Bill Sadler: 16:37

I guess I've had more fun playing good guys lately. That's that's a good question. I sometimes if you're going to be in a James Bond movie if you can't be James Bond it's good to be doctor know if you can't be the villain and be a really be evil mofo be just you know, how bad in the diehard movie entire to that was? That was the you know, it's following the I was following the first diehard movie which I was a fan of I loved what Alan Rickman did in as the villain in the first Die Hard movie. And when and when diehard two came along, and they cast me as the as the head of the bad guys. Yeah, I mean, I tried to I tried to make you try to rise to the challenge.

Greg Staffa: 17:29

Now is it true that they didn't initially want to cast you because you thought they were too young?

Bill Sadler: 17:33

I don't know they had done the tales from the first episode of Tales from the Crypt, which was one of the producers on that show was Joel Silver, who was the executive producer on the diehard films. And that's how that came about. It was they just offered me the they just offered me the job. I don't know whether I was too young or not they, I guess they were impressed enough to give it a shot.

Greg Staffa: 18:02

Some memorable role and when I think of you is it tough being compared to stuff that you've done 27 years ago, you know 30 years ago, where that's what you're remembered for. I mean, because you know, it's like Bill Sadler, from Shawshank Redemption and diehard to and you know, we're talking 27 years ago if someone was like, Hey Greg, remember that time when you were a host at the restaurant? I'm like okay, yeah, I've done a little bit since then. Does that ever get frustrating that that's kind of your anchor of what you're associated with, even though you've done countless more?

Bill Sadler: 18:36

I guess I don't I don't really find it frustrating. I'm I'm grateful that people still enjoy Shawshank. But they still watch it and get it. They get moved by it and there's a whole new generation has discovered Shawshank which is remarkable because it's you know that it doesn't feel dated. It doesn't a lot of films from back then you can watch and they just feel like you can you can tell they were made that long ago there. They just have this dated feeling to them. And Shawshank never has it maybe because it was set in a it's a period piece anyway. But it's kind of timeless. So no i don't i don't mind that people are like the bill and Ted's movie, bogus journey. I had so much fun creating the character and playing the death and bogus journey that I'm in I don't I don't begrudge people if they that's what they that's what they remember, you know. I'm grateful that they remember those things and all.

Greg Staffa: 19:47

The Bill and Ted stuff. Is there anything in your acting career that you can compare, being even close to that character? I mean, you know, you play the president, you play a serial you You've always been like, taken seriously, I guess for the most part. Is there anything that you also you've done that was just that kind of wacky that? I mean, it seems so it's like one of these things are not like the other. And you're looking at your film history. And it's like yeah, Shawshank Redemption. Oh, you know, great film diehard great action film, Bill and Ted. I mean, it just doesn't seem like it would fit that kind of path. What was it about that is, was it just you know what I wanted just, we had a period of life where you just wanted to do something wild and wacky.

Bill Sadler: 20:36

I had? Well, I mentioned it earlier than I did it. I used to do stand up. I was I've always enjoyed being funny, doing comedies. And when I did theater, all of those years of theater, most of it was comedy. The year and a half on Broadway was in a Neil Simon play. So this is really the legacy cycle. Let's blues back in 85. So this is really going back to your roots. And yeah, no, so there was there was making being funny and making people laugh, creating funny characters and stuff was, that was that was just in my DNA. And I just, I've always loved doing that. When I got to Hollywood, for some reason, they decided, oh, my God, what a good villain he is. And, you know, you cast me as a villain, and I'll play the villain for you, you know, which is what, which is what happened in Hollywood works that way, if you're really good at something. And that's how they get to know you. They they only feel comfortable casting you in that in that kind of role. So you get built, you know, you're the villain in this and you're the heavy in that you're the you know, people say, Oh, no, he's, he's terrific. And he looks like he could kill you, and then sit on your chest and eat a sandwich. And that was that's what was going along. You know, that's how the career in Hollywood was going. And then the bill and Ted movie came along. And I just, I had actually created that character. For a sketch comedy show. a television show that I shot called the salted nuts. You can you can go online and and you can see me play death, exact almost exactly the same character, the Czechoslovakia and accent everything years before in this sketch comedy show called a salted nuts.

Greg Staffa: 22:32

And have they seen that before? They cast your...

Bill Sadler: 22:35

No, no, no, no. And in fact, the casting people said, Oh, I called him up and said, I'm thinking of doing an accent for this character. And they were like, you know, maybe you, you probably shouldn't do that. And I just couldn't, I couldn't help myself. It was it's a funny accent and, and doing and doing that. Doing that character made him funny, even if he was just reading the newspaper. Oh, yeah. You know, and that's, you know, and that at the end of the day, that's how I that's how I got the job. But I'm sure it's because I could, I could be scary as the Grim Reaper in the beginning of the movie. But then when he starts losing the games to the bill and Ted, he dissolves into this sputtering catcher when baby man, child, man child who follows them through the rest of the movie and ends up playing in the band. And you know, he's still petulant, he's still and it was just delightful. It was really, really fun. It was fun to be that funny again,

Greg Staffa: 23:49

And bring them back years later.

Bill Sadler: 23:51

Yeah, yeah. Which was great. That was really want to,

Greg Staffa: 23:54

I want to go back slightly in touch on Shawshank again, I don't want to focus on it too much. But I do want to talk about it because I absolutely loved it. I was recently in Mansfield, Ohio. And one of the things you do when you're passing through that areas, you know, get a picture outside the famous prison there. But when you're filming it, did you realize how special I mean you talk to any critic out there and ask them for their top five films. Shawshank usually falls on that list. Did you realize how special you had something and what do you think it is? Because on the surface, it's a prison movie with a bunch of guys. There's no romance, there's no action scenes really, you know, no CGI. And yet, it's universally loved.

Bill Sadler: 24:42

I, first of all, the first part of your questions. I think everybody that back then knew that it was a strong script. It was a strong story. Lots of people wanted to be in it. Lots of people wanted to direct it for a while. They were doing Table reads I think with Tom Cruise. And in the for the Tim Robbins role he was interested in doing. And Nicolas Cage was interested in doing that with a lot of people back then were interested in in, you know, renewed fighting to get those rules. But I don't think any, like, I honestly don't think any of us knew while we were filming it that it was going to be what it became. And even Frank Darabont, who directed it, wrote it and directed it said, we've, I think we caught years and years later said, it was we we just caught lightning in the bottle. It was the right chemistry and the right story. It had the right field, it was it was everything about it just clicked into place. And it struck a nerve with, with audiences. And the thing that the thing that I think is the most endearing about it is that it's a story about hope, about surviving, you know, awful, awful circumstances and never losing hope. Never Letting go of, you know, one day I'm going to get out of here. And just I think it resonates with people because there's, you know, everybody, everybody runs into their, you know, everybody has their own prison, everybody. Everybody has their own Shawshank award. And

Greg Staffa: 26:32

I think what's amazing about it, too, is it hasn't really aged. I mean, it's a period piece, but you know, I was watching. There's a young woman I like to watch on YouTube. Her name is Natalie Gold, and she reacts to films that she's never seen before. She's a 20 something year old. And she recently just did Shawshank Redemption. And all those are first time seeing it, but she has over 160 or over 160,000 views of her watching Shawshank for the first time to reacting to her reaction to it and to watch these younger people absolutely love it, but then have people wanting to watch her enjoyment seeing this film. That's just amazing. what's

Bill Sadler: 27:16

what's her name,

Greg Staffa: 27:17

her name is Natalie Gold. It's really popular these days for people younger generations to watch films that they haven't seen before. But they don't know anything about it, don't know who's in it, and then record themselves watching yet. And due to copyright, they can only show bits and pieces of it, but they give their reaction of stuff that's you know, 30 years old, but they're 20 so they didn't know about and over 160,000 people watched her cry your eyes out reacting to this, you know, 27 year old film. Here's this young woman, like I said, there's no, you know heartthrobs. Really, it's just a guy present. You just don't think there's that audience. But yet all years later, it's, you know, it's just a good story that just happens to be a lot of prison.

Bill Sadler: 28:08

I think that's Stephen King, too, which surprises people. He's such a good horror writer. He's, he's just a good writer. Yeah. He, he creates these characters. And I don't know, it's a story about survival and the story about love. You know, these two men love each other. And that survives, you know, that, at the end of the day, survives everything as well. It's an extraordinary I'm very proud to have been in it and been a part of it. And I think we, the other thing about it was, that's the only movie I've ever done, where they, they brought us all to the table was there a couple of weeks early to rehearse, oh, they hired they hired mostly actors who had theater theater experience, they wanted people with theater experience, because they wanted it to feel like an ensemble, not a star vehicle. And that's what they got. They need everybody, everybody all the way around the dining room tables in those dining hall scenes. You could aim the camera anywhere. Everybody was feeding energy back into the scene, you could you could point the camera at anyone. And there was, you know, they were alive. And it's just an extraordinary thing. And I think everybody brought their A game. Nobody wants. You sat there at the table and you're sitting, you know, across across the table from Morgan Freeman and then down down the table away from you is James Whitmore. And none of none of the young men around that table wanted to drop the ball. You know, everybody wanted to bring their a their A game and I think I think we did. We're certain Like, it's sort of like playing tennis with McEnroe or something, you just, you don't, you don't want to be. You don't want to drop the ball.

Greg Staffa: 30:08

So you've done a lot of movies, you've done a lot of TV shows. Right now we're seeing a resurgence where, you know, we're going backwards, you know, Star Wars goes back to the original cast. And there's all these things that are kind of bringing back the original cast. There's something that you've done in the past that you would like to see that character brought back in some form,

Bill Sadler: 30:31

it would be fun to see. It would be fun to go back and play the sheriff in Roswell, Jim Valenti that I did for three years, it would be fun to go back and revisit that character for me, I was very fun to the show. And I was very bad. I love the cast. I like the I love the it was, it was a really fun three years of episodes. I liked what they did with the character,

Greg Staffa: 30:59

You did that for 61 episodes, most of your work is an episode or two, maybe four, was it loved it kept doing it? Or, you know, would you like to do something else going forward that had that kind of stability.

Bill Sadler: 31:12

What's fun about that is you can build a character. And then every, it's sort of like a novel every week, you get a different, you get to read another chapter in the character's life. And I've jumped around from project to project to project by whole my whole life, it's, it's fun, once in a while to settle, settle in and just play this character who keeps evolving in front of your eyes. I think I think that's, you know, that's the big draw for me, of being a regular on that series, I would like that. Right now, I have to, I have to change the subject, I just did a film with Karen Allen, called a stage of Twilight that I'm very proud of, I think I've played a lot of strange characters in my career. And in this one is just a man about my age, who has been married to a woman about my age, for 40 some years, and they're coming to the end of the end of the road. And it examines that in this beautiful way. And this in such a loving and thoughtful way. I've never been involved. I've never been asked to play a character like that. And, you know, I'm always, you know, I'm the villain or funny or, you know, an in and out quickly, this, this was an opportunity and, and with an actress, like Karen Allen, who was extraordinary to, to really sink our teeth into a relationship. And it feels, if I hope I haven't seen this movie yet. I hope I am. I hope it's a wonderful movie. But shooting it was one of the most extraordinary things I've ever done. I found myself going further as an actor than I've ever been I've ever been asked to go is

Greg Staffa: 33:12

that what keeps you motivated to continue with these characters is roles like that, that you might not have expected to happen? You know, 10 years ago?

Bill Sadler: 33:21

Yeah, I think so.

Greg Staffa: 33:23

We're talking to Indiana Jones. Karen Allen, right?

Bill Sadler: 33:25

That's correct. That's correct. And she's doing she's doing the new Indiana Jones movie as well. I think it's an indie. It's a little independent film. shot for $1.98 this summer, but it was, I've never I've never gone to those places with someone and I'm filming before. And it was just it was a beautiful experience. So I have great hopes for the film

Greg Staffa: 33:54

sounds like something perfect for South by Southwest.

Bill Sadler: 33:57

Yeah, yeah, I think that's what, I'm sure that's what they're, they're planning to do with it, you know, to get it into the film festivals and see if they can, you know, get it in front of audiences. You know, the funniest. The thing is, I, for some reason, in my, in my advanced years, I'm having more fun now, acting than I've ever had in my life. I just, I don't know whether I don't, and I'm not as vain. I'm older I go. You know, I sort of let myself go to places that I haven't gone before. I boldly go where the who actor has gone before.

Greg Staffa: 34:42

It's become less of a fight to get those roles where you're, I mean, I would assume you don't do many auditions for you.

Bill Sadler: 34:52

I get I get offered. A lot of things come to me as just straight offers which is terrific. I always quit. shade that I really do appreciate that. No people, people that are interested in using me in their projects Don't you know they're not they don't ask me to put myself on tape and but I do still do that sometimes to audition, you know, you do video, little video tape in my kitchen, so that they can hear me say the words, they can see what I look like now. If if they only know me from diehard to I looked a little different now, you know I bring I bring a different feeling to the roles now. So so I don't mind I don't mind auditioning, but I much prefer getting offers. So when

Greg Staffa: 35:46

you get these offers, what goes through your mind? Is it financial? Is it the character? Do you break down characters that you're not even you know that you're going to turn down just to see what makes them tick before you turn it down? What goes into that process of yours? Well,

Bill Sadler: 36:00

it's a bit it's a bit of both. It's a there's always the financial, you know, some of these things you do for love and some you do for money. If you're lucky, you could there's, you know, a bit of both the Karen Allen, this this movie that I was talking about? Didn't there was they had normally they're very, very small budget, but the role was so extraordinary. And that's what was enticing about it. And you know, that and yeah, I guess I guess I'm more. I'm more. I'm more interested these days in? How interesting the characters? How you know, is it something I've done before a dozen times? Or isn't? Or can I find a new way to play that song? Can I find something fun for the actor? In in this in this character? I'm yeah,

Greg Staffa: 37:05

this might be a weird question. But do you think that it's almost a detriment? I mean, if I was a young filmmaker, and I had the script to stage to Twilight, I'd be hesitant to reach out to someone of your caliber, and say, Hey, would you be willing to take a look at this? We have no money. But I think, let me How does that mean? It almost has to be an awkward conversation to be talking to someone like you and going can't really pay him much. But I think it's really do you think more producers, and I'm not saying you should work for free, but at the same time, if your passion is telling these stories, there's also a conflict going on that? You know how many of these great stories are not getting made? Because people are too scared to ask real talent to be a part

Bill Sadler: 37:49

of it? He was? Well, my advice to young filmmakers is never be afraid to ask for it. If you don't ask for it. It's certainly not going to happen. If you You might be surprised, like having Dell Sadler on your podcast. Exactly. If you don't ask, then it certainly won't happen. Let me I have one more. One more quick story. And I've told this one before when I did the first episode of Tales from the Crypt, they brought me in to audition for the cop. At the end of the show. There's a cop who comes in and says, Mr. Talbot, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can you know, Miranda rights? And that's it. That's all he says. He's got, you know, two lines or something. And then I came in and Karen Ray, put me on tape reading those two lines. And I said what's what's up with the role of Talbot the lead, but I asked the question, I said what's up with the role of Talbot? And she said, Oh, there was they're looking for a name, they want to date. They want you know, john malkovich or or, you know, they needed they need a star name. And I said, Oh, and I left. And I got halfway across the parking lot. And she stuck her head out the window of the office building and said, Bill, come back that she gave me the sides for Talbot and said, Come back on Monday. I'll put you on tape. We'll see what happens. I came back. And oh, she said slick your hair back and you know, blackout your teeth or something because you're too cute. So I came back, and I did the audition, and they blew them away. It was a model. He knows this character who has money. He's a dangerous or you know, he's an executioner who talks right to the camera about how fun it is to execute people. And, and I did it. The executive producers on the show were Walter Hill, Dick Donner, Robert Zemeckis, Bob Gail and Joel Silver. Joel Silver cast me in Die Hard to immediately after that I got the job. Walter Hill cast me in trespass after that. Frank Darabont was one of the writers on the show came up to me while we were filming and said, I'm going to do this movie called Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, and I'd like you to be in it. I've now done three movies with with Frank. And it all had to do when I say when I say don't be afraid to ask for what you want. I guess that's what I mean. If I hadn't, if I hadn't asked what's up with that role, I just want to left I just, you know, it never would have happened. And all of the things I've worked for all of those people know, in and it led it led directly to, to and Shawshank and the mist and the Green Mile and you know all so I could just, I really could just as easily have walked out of that room. And but Oh, well. They want to name you know,

Greg Staffa: 41:10

I almost hate asking one last question after hearing that story. But to wrap things up. One of the questions I asked almost everyone I talked to is when the name bill Sadler comes up, we automatically attach Shawshank Redemption we attach diehard to or bill and Ted's but when you wake up in the morning, and you look at in the mirror, you know you splash some water on your face, you look in the mirror, or when you get up in the afternoon because you're all celebrities you said earlier when you look in the mirror, who do you see who is Bill Sadler to you?

Bill Sadler: 41:43

I see that. You know, I see I underneath the wrinkles in the in the hair that's turning white. I see that. I see that kid that used to run around the barn on the farm outside of Buffalo diving out of the hayloft with his bb gun pays. Yeah, and I still see that kid that loves to play make believe you know, all those all those years ago I'm surprised at how much fun I still have doing this at this age. And I'm you know I'm grateful that's I guess that's the that's maybe the best part of it is I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to do this thing that I love all these years and making make a living.

Greg Staffa: 42:28

Well I'm glad I'm at I asked I'm glad Yeah. suggested it. It's been a real I mean, I've done countless interviews but with you it's been a sincere treat. I could talk to you for much much longer but Oh, it's just I sincerely appreciate you coming on. It's wonderful to hear stories. little kitten me, just mentioning Shawshank Redemption in hearing some that was in it. You know, is exciting. I mean, I was a young boy when I heard you came out. So to me that was, you know, the great action film of my childhood.

Bill Sadler: 43:05

I was I was I was a little kid watching those movies. You know, it wasn't those movies, but it was you know, I grew up I would watch the movies with my friends and then we would race around the barn acting out all the parts to be you know, doing all of this make believe science fiction and fighting Germans and you know, whatever the movies were, that's what we were. That's what we were doing non stop. So I was I get to take my little kid out and play with him all the time.

Greg Staffa: 43:40

Well, again, I sincerely appreciate it coming on. I hope to talk to you in the future maybe at South by Southwest for Stage of Twilight, you know, maybe that is something that will keep an eye out for thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of your day, sir. You're very welcome. That does it for this episode. Thank you for listening to the Stafford corner.