Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to the Staffa Corner Podcast, a Staffatarian look at entertainment and life with your host, greg Staffa. My guest this episode is award-winning actor, writer, director and producer, jillian Black Antelope. He has a new season of his show, secret History, airing now on APTN, as well as a new film out called Dreamer 89, and just recently, ncis Origins, the new prequel to the NCIS series, just premiered. Julian, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Hey, greg, thanks a lot for having me on Appreciate that. Yeah, looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 0:54

You grew up in Canada, correct?

Speaker 2: 0:56

Yes, grew up in southern Alberta. I'm a prairie boy, so I don't know if people are familiar with southern Alberta Big, great, wide, open, open skies, rocky mountains, rolling plains, that sort of stuff. Definitely a Native American country.

Speaker 1: 1:13

And what was that like growing up there? As far as influences, maybe that you saw from the US.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Growing up in the prairies, it's not without its charm. You get some brutally hot summers and the wind the wind, I got to say. Where I grew up in deep and southern Alberta, just east of the Pikani Reserve. It's always windy down there, so an average day growing up in hot sun would be about 50, 60 miles an hour. So you can't really do much and if you're working out on it it's definitely frustrating. I grew up on a farm 11 out of 11.

Speaker 1: 1:51

What kind of farm was it?

Speaker 2: 1:54

The first farm we had was a pig farm and a cattle ranching farm, and so we did a lot of hay season. My summers were filled with hay chuck and bales, and my nights and evenings were filled with chores, up until I don't know, from about five in the afternoon until about 9, 30, 10 at night. So I grew up knowing what good, hard, honest laboring work is.

Speaker 1: 2:19

That's something that's missing, I think, from today's youth. I think we all could use a little bit more of that. Growing up so you got involved in the Canadian music scene before becoming an actor.

Speaker 2: 2:33

What drew you to that?

Speaker 2: 2:37

I grew up going to school in a small town called Fort McLeod and at the time it was maybe about 3,500, 3,800 people and I was always drawn to playing drums.

Speaker 2: 2:46

And so, you know, I was in high school band and, kind of funny enough, I didn't I never ever learned how to read music, but I always passed band. I had a really good ear for music. I could pick it up just by listening to it, and drums was kind of my thing. Like you know, once I seen and heard somebody playing a set of drums I was like that is the instrument for me. So it's something that I pursued through school, playing in a variety of different grad bands and so forth, and later on went out onto the road shortly after graduation, toured around Western Canada, canada playing in Everbar scene, all the way up to the Yukon and the Northwest Territories and all that and then eventually lived on the road for about a year and a half, no fixed address, just going from band to band, and eventually joined up into a band that was going to Vancouver because I wanted to dive into original music.

Speaker 2: 3:44

And once I moved out there I got into original music and a couple of close calls with success I guess brushes with success. Nothing really panned out to the extent that I wanted it to, but definitely had a good time creating and making tunes. And that's actually where I kind of first dipped my toe into the film and television industry.

Speaker 1: 4:07

And how was that? What was the transitioning point?

Speaker 2: 4:11

I was in town on and off the road playing original music and I was looking for extra cash and a friend of mine out in Vancouver said, well, why don't you try doing background work? And I said, what's that? And he said, well, just go out onto a film set, get an agency and they'll book you on a film set. You can meet some people and sit around and make some money and eat sandwiches. And so, as a musician, I was like a starving musician. I was like that sounds like the perfect in-town gig for me. So I did, and one of the first sets that I ever got on was stargate sg1 and I was like just blown away by it. Like you know just uh, the gravity of it all, like working in these studios and seeing all these props and costumes and stuff and just the whole production wheel, and uh.

Speaker 2: 5:02

So for me I didn't realize it at the time, but it left quite a bit of an imprint on me there was people that I met that you know were saying you should be an actor, you should be an actor, you should be an actor. And I was like no, I can't. You see, I'm a musician, I want to be a musician. And you know, I was just, you know, young and egotistical, and I was just so sure of myself that that's where I wanted to be that I I kind of didn't really see the point of getting into acting at that time, not until later, when I moved back into Alberta. That's when I decided to take a second look at things and consider it and what was it coming in?

Speaker 1: 5:41

as an outsider, you're not classically trained like many actors are just seeing it from the outside. How did you see representation for your kind of people in the beginning versus where we are now?

Speaker 2: 6:09

old, indigenous I guess, uh, um, I back then it was, like you know, this would have been around 2002, 2003, when I came back to alberta, you know, it wasn't necessarily really hip like it is now to be indigenous. And film and television there wasn't a lot of roles, unless it was what we call, you know, the classic leathers and feathers, you a western or something like that or something dealing with spooks and spirits. So it was a little bit of a hard go at it. But as for representation, there's always just a small handful of the same familiar faces that you've seen, which, a lot of them, I say, I believe they're pioneers in the industry for us that followed in their footsteps, you know, and I'm talking about people like the late August Schellenberg, the late Gordon Tatusis, graham Green, tantu, cardinal, you know, wes Studi. These are all people that kind of blazed trails for us to get in. And if you even go back further than that, there's people like the late Chief Dan George, who was the one who really broke it open for Indigenous people in film and television, I believe. So it was something that was, you know, not unheard of, I guess, I guess, the hard road to travel, but it was something that I was still drawn to and interested in. So for me I always I guess for me I'm just kind of bullheaded. If there's something easy in front of me, I tend to. I guess for me I'm just kind of bullheaded. If there's something easy in front of me, I tend to ignore it. So I'll take the thing that is hard and that's really how I got involved with it.

Speaker 2: 7:37

Out here in Alberta. I was sitting in my you know, to keep a long story short, I was sitting in my apartment, three months behind on rent broke. I just finished a two-year contract working as a guy that the head's masked in buffalo jump and, uh, I was my landlord, was pretty cool, easy, easy going. But uh, you know, I'm still three months behind on rent and I had a phone number that I could call to go work in the oil fields and just get to calgary and I'd be making, you know, ten thousand bucks a month working in the oil fields. Or I could call this other number and drive two and a half hours to Calgary and make $10 an hour and probably spend more in gas than I'm going to make that day. So that's the choice that I made. Just to get back onto a film set again and check things out for myself and see where it might take me.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Do you see? I mean I was not recently, but I did a review of the series Mohawk Girls and when it was first presented to me I was like I'm a single white, middle-aged white male. How is that? I'm not the target audience. And what I quickly realized was that we oftentimes, in my opinion, put things too much in a box where we say things like blackish is a family, a black family series, dr ken is an asian family series, mohawk Girls is about the Mohawk tribe up in Canada and we kind of lose pictures in boxing things that way, because I end up watching Mohawk Girls and loving it as a comedy and I think we kind of diminish things or risk losing audiences by boxing things so much into a corner that we lose sight of what's entertaining. Is that something that you see or is that something that's we're slowly, we're growing.

Speaker 2: 9:33

You know well, I mean the industry itself. It's kind of all based a little bit on stereotypes and putting things in boxes, because that's how they kind of first see you in the industry. Things in boxes because that's how they kind of first see you in the industry, um, you know, like for myself, just the way I look in my, you know, you know, I guess, in the presence, I've always been typecast in this, so to speak, in specific roles, bad guys or, you know, villains and crazy people and so forth, just based on my appearance, and that's kind of where the stepping off point usually is. But going back to the Mohawk girls, like a show like the Mohawk girls, yes, there is a lot of inside cultural, you know jokes and things like that. But you know humor is universal and I think once you step back you know it's all something that we can see ourselves in, like in those typical type of sticky situations that are funny. Maybe one time or another we've been in those or we know somebody who's been in those and that's where we connect to.

Speaker 2: 10:35

But you know, for shows like the Mohawk Girls and Indigenous-led shows that are written, created and developed and so forth and performed, you know it's our way, like at least we're telling our stories the way we want to tell them, instead of having them told for us if that makes sense, sure, yeah, because everyone behind it, from the writers to the producers were were all Mohawk themselves and, like I said, I I was overly surprised with how much I enjoyed it because, yes, it wanted me.

Speaker 1: 11:06

It made me want to learn more, a little bit about their culture. At the same time, their life experiences were just like. I mean, they're women, but most of their life experiences were just like everyday people's sometimes, where we put things too much in a box that we forget that they have relationship problems, that they had, you know, financial troubles or they had problems at work. And if that's funny and well-written, I don't care where they're from. It just happens to be that that's their background and that made me want to learn a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 11:40

But it surprises me that you talk about being typecast and stuff like that. But why can't you be joe and the neighbor? And I think we're still, in my opinion, it feels like we're still just not ready to fully go that where you're just the neighbor, it doesn't have to be the culture. And one of the things that interests me about the ncs series is you play a chief medical examiner, which I'm sure, and we'll get to that in a little bit, but your culture might be explored a little bit. But you're not the Native American chief Indian medical examiner. You're the chief medical examiner for San Diego County. I think that's a great casting because it sounds to me, in my opinion and you can correct me if I'm wrong but you're a cast for your acting and not just who you are.

Speaker 2: 12:32

Yeah, exactly, and well put, To put a button on that. To just take a step back, the industry is starting to come around. The industry is starting to come around Indigenous people, native Americans up until late were probably the most unrepresented demographic in film or television. Like I said, it was always leathers and feathers or, if we have something to do, spooks and spirits or something, or the big shaman stuff, or the classic westernized ideology of what Native Americans are. And you know, to use my own childhood as an example, like growing up on the prairies, you know, like that's where I think the industry needs to look at things and, in particular, to give a shout out to Paramount Studios and NCIS Origins is to look at people for just what they can deliver. And you know who they are like, you know as a person, as an actor to the eyes of a child, so to speak. Like you know, I grew up and I used to love watching the show different strokes, you know and I didn't know any, any black people that I went to school with.

Speaker 2: 13:39

You know I had no idea what you know like the culture was like. You know where they come from and how. You know know the adversity that they faced, but I did connect to the fact of being adopted and, you know, just like a you know a kid trying to navigate life and you know that that was the. I love that show, watching that show, and I didn't really see them as like you know, willis and Arnold as being these black kids. I just seen them as kids being kids, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 14:10

You saw yourself in them.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Yeah, exactly, and you know, I'm not a black person, you know, and I didn't even really think much about it, like you know, during that age, because I was quite young, like eight, I think I was around the same age, eight years old. At the time, you know, I didn't really see the you know, the stereotype and the racism and stuff that you know I faced later on, as I got older. You know, I didn't see myself as like this Indian kid that was adopted, you know, like I just I didn't, I just see myself as a kid and I think that's how we need to look at things, just globally, as people. You know, one people, one planet, like you know, like you know, if you took away everyone's sight, you know, I think we have listened and we would see things a lot more clearly. And, you know, show like NCIS, oranges, it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 15:00

I thought it was so awesome to be cast in a role like that, cause it had really nothing to do with being Native American. And here's this guy that's up on top of the game. He's like he is the chief, the honcho here in charge of people and for a show that takes place in the 90s, this character, with my age, the way I look, he would have had it. He would have had a tough time coming up and get to that point back in that you know like so he would have been probably 25 years to climb that ladder to get up to where he is Right and going to school. So you take away 25 from 1990 and you're looking at 1970 or whatever.

Speaker 2: 15:42

It is 1975. Is that right? No, was that my math? No, 1965. That wasn't a happening time to be Indigenous for sure, let alone trying to get the money to go to school and educate yourself to be in a position like that. So you know, when I first read for the role, I was like eh, that's a long shot, right, but it does say he's Indigenous. Maybe they're just trying out an Indigenous person to see how they look in the role. I didn't know, sometimes that happens. I was attracted to the material and the fact that we weren't going down the Indigenous road to explain why it's an Indigenous man in this position. It was just a character in a well-crafted story.

Speaker 1: 16:28

So why do we still I mean, why are producers and them still doing that where they're saying indigenous, even though it doesn't really need to be. Just you happen to be? Why was that something that?

Speaker 2: 16:41

because does that impact you when you're looking at other roles that don't say indigenous, yeah well, it's you know, in the past, starting out in the industry, you know I always read for a lot of roles it said, oh, open ethnicity, and we already know the ethnicity that gets cast in. That it's just, you know. Like to this day they're you know, for some productions it's just a formality, whereas after working in europe as an actor, open ethnicity means exactly that they don't even list ethnicities unless they're specific to the role, because there you can't really typecast people. You can have an Asian woman with a Cockney accent and a Japanese man that speaks German, so you can't really throw people in a box over there. So it's there, it's the best actor for the job.

Speaker 2: 17:33

And race only comes into play if it's actually specific to that character and there's a reason for it. And I think here in North America we're slowly starting to wake up to that fact that we just need to cast the right person for the role, and their, the race and their, you know, appearance or whatever is irrelevant unless you're looking for, like you know you're, we're doing a ronnie coleman biography and we need, like, a black, well-muscled bodybuilder. Okay, because that's ronnie cole, right? So just to use that as an example. So until we, you know the pendulum's swinging. It was so far one way and now it's swinging back. So, and once we find that balance, it'll be a nice happy medium, I think.

Speaker 1: 18:25

Yeah, I just think more shows that do it more naturally. It feels more natural instead of seeing casting where you go well, that person was picked because of their race or ethnicity. I think a lot of shows I'm trying to think of oh, the Unicorn is that one. The Unicorn had a neighbor that was black, but it never came up that he was black, he just had real problems and stuff like that and the casting feels more natural.

Speaker 1: 18:53

I think if we catch would cast it more naturally and then let their race help expand on their character or their be the focus of their character. So I'm glad ncis kind of did that. I mean, they're looking for indigenous but at the same time it doesn't sound like that was a big thing to have. But my hope is that your background is explored through your character because I do think it makes and creates for some interesting storylines and I hope that's something that we see fleshed out in that. Do you feel kind of an added burden or responsibility being indigenous and being represented on TV and how the characters that you choose behave and represent themselves?

Speaker 2: 19:44

Is that fair or not fair? Yeah, there is. I mean there is in two aspects. To use the NCIS character, you know Dr tanglecat, dr tango, um, there's a big responsibility, I feel, on my part because I'm not playing, you know, a character from the nation that I represent. So he's a character from uh people, or the lucenio people, who have been in part of Southern California since time immemorial. They're one of six federally recognized bands that make up the people of the day. So I want to learn as much as I can from their Indigenous advisor, who is from that tribe, from that nation of people, to make sure that I'm portraying things once the character is getting it explored culturally. So I'm doing them the right way and I'm doing it justice. And if there's ever language that I have to speak which is under the same name, I want to make sure that I'm saying it the right way, because there is people at home that are listening. The old people listen to this and they want to see themselves portrayed correctly and their language spoken correctly. And that's just out of for myself, out of a sign of respect.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Now, playing characters, indigenous characters, and worrying about how they're portrayed yes, absolutely, you know, I always have that on the forefront of my mind, mind. You know, I've seen material come across my desk, so to speak, where you know there's no reason why this character is being portrayed as an alcoholic it has no relevance to the story or an abusive person or whatever. Like there's no relevance. But yet, on the same token, I have played characters where it was a hundred percent to the story and other Indigenous actors have said you know, are you sure you want to be playing Indigenous people like this? And I said, well, for the storyline and how the character is part of this story.

Speaker 2: 21:44

Yes, it is essential to play it like this because there's a rhyme and a reason for that. Like you know, we're not perfect, nobody's perfect, right. But as long as it makes sense and it's justified by the story itself, then it's fine. And you know, those are things for me that I also take seriously, because I want to make sure that they're played truthfully and honestly, from a good place, like I'm not trying to put icing on a stereotype, I'm not trying to glorify it. I'm playing it for a specific reason, as you know to, for you know, like my commitment to the story, but also as a way to take a look at our flaws in ourself and say, hey, that's not the person I want to be, or that's the person I once was, or my neighbors like that, like you know. Maybe I should go over there and have a talk to them. So it's a way to create change and see ourselves in an arena for our flaws and our strengths, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 22:47

No, it does. It's a great comparison. So, as much as it's important to blend Native people into casting and showing a diverse group of people, there's also a history involved, remembering your past and your culture and everything like that. So tell us a little bit about Secret History that's airing now on APTN.

Speaker 2: 23:11

Secret History. It's a half-hour high-concept documentary series that offers an Indigenous perspective on North American history and the Indigenous people that shaped it. You know, history is obviously written by the victors, or you know the people that write books, and it is whitewashed, let's face it. I mean this concept came to be for me, you know, growing up I knew about all these characters and this is, you know, the starting point of it. You know of Indigenous characters that I knew about from listening to the old people and hearing stories that weren't taught about in school. And the stuff that I did hear about in school was really surface stuff, you know, and kind of swayed to one side. So the series alone, you know they're all standalone episodes and each season is different from the next, but it's just a chance to focus on history through an Indigenous perspective.

Speaker 2: 24:09

And one of the ways that we do that is to you know, I host the show is to do it through the eyes of a trickster.

Speaker 2: 24:17

So you know I play the trickster and that's through his perspective that we see things. So it's a good way to you know, because a lot of dark points in history's history, you know, there's a lot of dark stuff in there that makes people uncomfortably comfortable. So the trickster is there to set the tone and also let the gas off those moments, to let people know that you know it's not about pointing fingers or throwing a brick through your window. We're just opening the door to let a little fresh air in and it's okay to feel uncomfortable and we'll'll just move on. So and each, like I said, each season is different and you know the first season, the underlying concept, was to explore the mystical and metaphysical influences bringing some of Western Canada's notorious Indigenous heroes that shape Canadian West. So and stuff that's, you know, very little bit like few cliff notes in history, or you know, very little is known about these people and culturally speaking.

Speaker 2: 25:18

You know, like these people had certain powers gifted to them by the spirits and when you look at their accomplishments it's kind of, you know, you wonder, like you know, is that person get the spirit protector and is that why they're able to stay alive and, you know, remain unscathed throughout their battles and times to achieve the things that they achieved? And season two is about women warriors, which it expands the reach across North America to focus on indigenous women that have you know, been greatly swept under their proverbial historical rug or put in the shadows of their male counterparts. And season three is Lore and Legends, which is we're getting ready to shoot that right now, which is a compelling exploration of indigenous lore, what you know people call lore, ancient astronaut theories and, you know, enigmatic phenomena that challenges mainstream history's beliefs about human origins and the lines between myth and reality. So it's a way of just. It's all founded in culture and what we see, as you know, like to use lore and legends as an example.

Speaker 2: 26:30

Most people call these stories myth that we have in our stories, that we pass down through oration. And, yes, sometimes stories are passed down purely for entertainment and there are just life lessons in them. But a lot of our stories. They're actual fact. They're not stories. It's a record of events, of things that happened. Stories it's a record of events, of things that happened. It challenges mainstream beliefs about human origins and where we're from and a lot of stuff that people are interested in pursuing right now through ancient astronaut theories. We're just bringing that all together. Basically, the series is in a nutshell. To make a long story short is to just put a different perspective on what people think they might know of right now or what they've been taught, and just kind of open up a different viewpoint to consider.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Was there something that opened your eyes as an adult, now that maybe you discovered about your own heritage that you didn't know growing up? Was there anything that you uncovered or realized that was extra special to you?

Speaker 2: 27:37

well. Growing up, um, you know, I I was like I'm crematee by birth. I didn't. I don't know my birth parents or my birth family. I just found out who they were not too long ago, just a few years ago, and I have 600 brothers and sisters. So I'm not familiar with the culture that I'm from, and I was adopted by European people and raised in my younger years and later adopted into a Blackfoot family, and that's the culture that I was taught and that's why I identify as Blackfoot.

Speaker 2: 28:08

So through all my life growing up, though, I knew there was something bigger than me, more than me that I'm part of and, you know, not necessarily having that spiritual foundation at such a young age I still knew that there was something way bigger than me that I live under and something that guides me that you know and protects me when I need to or not, when I need that, and I believe that, for every human being on the planet, whether you're indigenous or not, I mean just the miraculous you know for for a human being to survive, to be conceived alone and to is like in the umpteen millions of odds, and then for conception to make it to an actual, successful live, birth is even greater than that. That's why it's called the miracle of birth, and as human beings, we're so fragile that for us to even make it to adulthood is even more astronomical. So there's a reason, I believe, why we make it as far as we do in our lives, and there's something out there that's watching over us in order to do so. So that's something that I've always felt growing up, and when I started learning more about culture indigenous culture in general, and this is Blackfoot culture now I remember some of the medicine people that I was, you know I said how come I know this? I just inherently have known.

Speaker 2: 29:34

This thing that you're telling me is an actual teaching. And he said because it's bred into you, it's in your DNA, and that's why you were called here. You were called here to learn and later you'll be called in life to find out where you're from. And he was exactly right. He's. This is a gentleman that's passed on and this is. He told me this probably oh geez, I want to say over 20 years ago, and he's exactly right today. So that makes good answer.

Speaker 1: 30:07

I do think people should check out. You know, something like secret history. I'm I'm always fascinated. There's a show on I think it was CBS, called Timeless and it was a time travel show and instead of going back in time and seeing the typical white I mean the white male you know Thomas Edison and that kind of stuff you know thomas edison and that kind of stuff they went back and they found characters through history that were indigenous or black and told you know amazing stories about the first. The lone ranger was actually based on a black character bass, I think his name was and so I think these stories like secret history, to go back and tell these stories where we're not, it's not about us or our culture.

Speaker 1: 30:52

It's learning how other things impacted us and there's just so much to learn from it without feeling like it's too preachy. I think that was one of the things that Timeless did good at. It was going back and telling a story about something that was foreign to us, but telling it in a way that was fun and entertaining. And I checked out the trailer to secret history and you're the one that puffs in and out, like with the feathers, I believe and it looked like a fun way to present history without feeling it's forced down on you. And just because it's not my history doesn't mean there's not I can't learn about it. And same thing I felt with mohawk girls was, you know, I was reluctant at first to check it out because, well, like, where am I going to come away from, you know, watching Mohawk 20-year-olds living a life?

Speaker 1: 31:38

But education is education, Comedy is comedy and I think the more we can learn about us and the people around us, the more better the place can be. I mean, it just helps us get a better understanding of the backgrounds and the histories and the cultures. Like that, I think. Things like Secret History they might not be the biggest shows on network but I think they're important out there for all of us to see, not just Indigenous people. So I applaud you for stuff like that. You also had a new film come out, Diener 89, which is completely different than Secret Histories. It's an 80s comedy and it looked like your character is not exactly based on any heritage, it's just you're. Tell us a little bit about that character.

Speaker 2: 32:31

Yeah, d-89. Thanks for the compliment on Secret History too. D-89, that was a lot of fun. It's directed by Sam McGlenn and written by Paul Spence and you know Paul comes from. You know he's part of the FUBAR, that's, you know, pretty a wide officer, a couple of guys up here. They made a couple of great films and stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:56

My character is Gatley. He's a brute in this motorcycle gang called the Metal Rangers. But I have a soft spot for Dean. But you know I kind of make his life a little bit hell by kind of extorting him and getting him to do things so our gang can profit from this. But uh, it has nothing to do with being indigenous and you're exactly right, like he just Gatley's, just this one half of a duo and my counterpart is named Moth and you know where these kind of ridiculously funny looking biker guys that kind of taunt Dean and the show alone is about. You know, like Dean Diener, the character finding his Métis roots where Paul is actually Métis in real life. So it has a lot of personal elements for Paul, I think, and a lot of fun elements, I think, that keep the audience, you know, entertained and engaged and you know a good way of laughing at ourselves too.

Speaker 1: 33:55

You've done a lot of work. If someone like Steven Spielberg came with you with Steven Spielberg money and said I got four story ideas I'm looking at doing. Two of them are focused on indigenous. Two of them are focused on indigenous, two of them are just regular characters, how does your mindset go of what you're interested in? How do you choose roles, if they're indigenous or not? What's kind of your thought process in finding roles and going for them?

Speaker 2: 34:30

for me. I like, I really welcome roles that challenge me, to push me out of my comfort zone or something that's new to play. You know, playing somebody something like Gatley was it was a lot of fun. You know he's a bad guy, but in kind of a dark, comedic sense playing. I just recently did a film called brother that's coming out. They're in post-production right now. They're coming out in 2025. It's a psychological thriller directed by Sam Fichtner and written by Rebecca Roberts.

Speaker 1: 35:04

And.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I just play a cop in that, just a nice, well-mannered, quiet, small-town cop that comes across as a little bit you know, totally opposite from the way I look Very passive, very nonchalant, very kind of, maybe not good at his job, but really he is quietly underneath. So it's roles that kind of go against the grain, I think, are the ones that interest me the most and the ones that do you that do pin me for my appearance. They're also well-crafted and fun to play, because there's nothing better than playing a villain, a bad guy, and that's the best way to play this, because you believe that you're going to win, even though on page 89 you die those are the funnest ones to play.

Speaker 2: 35:54

The ones that are flawed and that's what I really welcome with characters is ones that are flawed. I don't know what they're going to do with NCIS my character, dr Tango, but one of the things was Tango's ties to the NCIS, forcing to face his own vulnerability. So for me that was one of the things that piqued my interest. I was like, okay, so this is not going to just be a flash in the pan, let's check a box and throw an Indian in there. They're going to actually build this character out to some degree and based on my relationship with Mike Franks.

Speaker 2: 36:27

I'm very close, he's my buddy, we're tight, and Mike is dating my niece Tish, played by Tenantin Carmelo, and so there's a very close family relationship revolving around Mike Franks who, as all the fans know, is not always politically correct in his deeds and actions, right. So he's a little bit rough around the edges and he's flawed, which also means that my character, for all his professionalism and, you know, status and his job, is likely just as flawed as Mike. So that's where I kind of see things. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I love characters that are flawed characters.

Speaker 1: 37:14

Is there any concern about NCIS burnout? I mean, we have two spinoffs coming now, or the Origins and then the other spinoff I remember Weird Al Yankovic, one of his songs jokes that there's been so many CSI shows that soon they're going to come out with CSI Boise, which would not be entertaining given just how boring Boise sounds. But is there a risk of you know, becoming NCIS Boise, where people are like I've seen this? My other concern is did the fans love Gibbs' portrayal or the actor's portrayal, and will there be a demand to see a younger Gibbs that doesn't have the Mark Harmon involved? Is there any concerns about that, or have you seen enough of what you've produced that the show has enough to stand on its own?

Speaker 2: 38:09

Well, I mean, I'm not going to pretend that I'm qualified to speak the definites of this or let alone speak for the character of Leroy Jethro Gibbs, but you know, it is daunting, to say the least, even for my role in here to be part of such a massive franchise and with a huge fan base that it has that spans like two decades, spans over two decades. But from what I know of NCIS, the other spinoffs or whatever, and Mark Harmon's original one, origins, is something entirely different. It's gritty, it's raw, it's real. And the characters the writing is just so great like the characters have so much color and depth and layers there's.

Speaker 2: 39:01

So there's characters that the fans are going to be familiar with for sure, and they're going to see those characters and they're in their early throes and beginnings. And then there's new characters that are that they're going to be introduced to, and there's tons of easter eggs woven throughout the series as well, so starting in the premiere itself. So fans are going to hardcore, fans are going to recognize this and it's going to be a lovely treat for them. I don't think there's a chance, personally, of it being burnt out. I think this is something entirely new. It's not your typical. In my experience it's not your typical network show, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 39:44

It's more and there's enough from what I've heard and what you've said. There's enough for it to stand on its own, while also honoring the original, where you don't have to see the original to appreciate the new show and maybe the new show makes you want to check out the original. Would that be correct?

Speaker 2: 40:02

Absolutely, yes, absolutely. That's my perspective. Totally is that there's enough information here. It's like somebody who's like 16 years old or 17 years old like gravitate to this and say, hey, this is a great show and it'll spurn them on to learn about it'll be like oh hey, look at the books.

Speaker 2: 40:20

You know these characters. It's like you know the things that come after the show. It's great. And so for new fans it's going to be great to discover, and they'll always have these other ones to discover after that. And, as I said for the, for the regular fans that you know, the loyal fans that have been watching this over the years, they can't wait for my. From what I understand, some of them that I've spoken to that I know watch the show. They can't wait to see this one because it is about some of their favorite characters and their early days and answers a lot of questions that they might have had. So again, it's kind of one hand washes the other, so to speak. I think it's a win-win.

Speaker 1: 41:02

Now you've done some stunt work in the past, is that correct? Yes, Is there anything on NTIS that you push yourself a little bit physically-wise that we can look forward to without giving anything too away?

Speaker 2: 41:16

I haven't come across anything yet in the episodes that I've done. Yeah, my stunt background like coming up, you know, as I was building myself as an actor, you know I got myself locked to work as a stunt performer and that comes from riding horses and you know riding horses and taking falls off of horses and so in the stunt world now get thrown through things and over things, et cetera. As far as my character goes, I have no idea what they have in store. Like I just I just know, episode to episode, what's released to me and so far I kind of like where things are going.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Am I opposed to it if there is? I'm not. I mean I, I I don't do stunts for my ego. Like I mean I, you know I'm older now but I mean I would definitely know, I'm smart enough to know. Uh, if there's something that comes up, maybe maybe I won't be doing that one. Or you want me to jump out of a car doing 50? Uh, probably not a good idea at my age. I'll bust everything. I'll let a young guy do that.

Speaker 1: 42:17

Is there one scene that you can tease, without giving any spoilers, that you're especially excited for fans of your work or just casual fans to see? Is there a reference that you can give us that when we see it, we'll know it that you're especially proud of, or that was a fun, memorable day?

Speaker 2: 42:40

they're all fun, memorable days. Um, I mean working with with uh kyle and and uh austin's character. Uh, you know, like you know, like you know, both are Kyle Schmidt and Austin Stovall. They're both great guys to work with and we have a lot of laughs on set.

Speaker 2: 43:01

And uh same with Maddie out who plays Lala, like we. In fact, we're just actually, I'd have to say, the episode that we just shot. Uh, there is a scene, um, where that we just shot. There is a scene where we just had the giggles that day and we're trying to keep a lid on things as best as we could as we're going over forensic evidence on a body and there's a lot of takes of trying not to laugh and I'm curious to see what the end product of that is going to be Nice.

Speaker 1: 43:33

So final question uh, going back to secret history, I mentioned the Steven Spielberg and the Steven Spielberg cash. If he came to you and said you've got a lot of great stories in secret histories, I want to give you Steven Spielberg cash, which he can say that a lot. Uh, to find one story that you think deserves to be told, like on the big screen. Uh, to find one story that you think deserves to be told on the big screen, what one would you pick On the big screen.

Speaker 2: 43:58

It would have to be something from the third season, lord and Legends, anyone particular, just a bunch. I don't know. It's hard to say just because of the content, it's so intermarried. But I think it would have to go back to the story of Tail Feathers Woman and where the Sundance came from. Sundance was a sacred ceremony to the Blackfoot people, to all Indigenous people, but where it was first given to the Blackfoot people, to all indigenous people, but where it was first given to us and who brought it to us? Because that is not just a story, that was an actual event.

Speaker 1: 44:44

And finally, I have one more question. You had mentioned that growing up you were a fan of different strokes. You were a young kid that saw a portrayal, whether for a black family, because you were adopted. Now you're on television and your leading characters are indigenous, but also they're real characters. So for a young you watching you now, what message do you have for them that might want to become actors and actresses that are looking at you, um, as a role model, watching you on ncis?

Speaker 2: 45:20

uh, well, first of all, if you know I I don't consider myself a role model, but if I am, at least I know that uh, young people out there see a sober one. I'll lead a sober life. I, uh, you know, I have a flawed past. Maybe that's why I love flawed characters. But I've learned from my mistakes.

Speaker 2: 45:39

My advice to young people getting into this industry believe in yourself 100%, believe in what you can achieve and know that you can achieve anything if you put your mind to it. Don't ever let anything sway you and it's a hard one. Make sure you have thick skin. Opinions, you know, are like a-holes Everyone has one. Who cares about them? All that matters is what you see yourself doing. And in the words of Stanislavski, you know, see the art in yourself. Don't see yourself in the art. Don't worry about all the accolades and the red carpet crap and all this other stuff.

Speaker 2: 46:25

Concentrate on the art and the craft of acting and being truthful and helping tell a story and make sure you're coming from a truthful place. And I say this because when I started acting, people asked what I did for a living in interviews and I said, oh, nothing really important. I actually thought about it and storytelling is part of who we are as Indigenous people. I think it's just who we are as a species anyway, for all people. You know that's what everyone did around the campfires at night is sit around and tell stories. There was no TV, and it's important because that's how we like to feel. We like to feel at the end of the day.

Speaker 2: 47:08

You might have had a tough week and you want to go laugh, so you pick a story that makes you laugh and if you're not being truthful as an actor in that story, people will know. They'll see it. They won't know why it's bad acting, they'll just know that there's something wrong with it and they'll feel ripped off. So you have an importance as a storyteller to be truthful to the character you're playing and the story you're telling and to be respectful to it, because you're helping people escape, you're helping people be entertained. You're helping people learn about themselves too, depending on the type of story you're watching well said well, julian, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 47:44

Again, new season of secret history is out on aptn. Check out deaner 89 and ncis origins on cbs. Uh, thank you for your time and looking forward to seeing more of you in the future.

Speaker 2: 47:57

Thanks a lot, Greg, for having me. Thanks so much.

Speaker 1: 48:00

That does it for this episode. Thank you.