Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to the Staffa Corner Podcast, a Staffatarian look at entertainment and life with your host, Greg Staffa.

Speaker 2: 0:14

My guest this episode is talented actor Anthony E Williams. He can be seen in Netflix feature Straw, which is a Tyler Perry production. Anthony, thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 0:26

Hey, no problem, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 0:27

So tell us a little bit about your upbringing. You were born in Ohio, correct?

Speaker 1: 0:32

Yep, I was born in Strongsville, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, played a lot of soccer, grew up out of cul-de-sac and ended up going to a private Jesuit school where I played varsity soccer. Then from there I moved on to UNC, Charlotte to start my business career.

Speaker 2: 0:48

And what was life like for you? Because a lot of actors they talk about how they were shy and timid and they found acting to be kind of an escape. Were you active? You said you were in sports a little bit there.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Yeah. So with me it was the complete opposite. It was like when I started acting. I didn't start acting until I was in my mid-30s, but everyone from high school to elementary school and my family said this makes perfect sense. So I was always loud, telling jokes, doing stand-up at parties and I was kind of the life of everything. And once I got on camera everyone felt like, okay, it made sense. I had a friend of mine in high school and we would play a joke where I would get in an argument with someone or they would say something mean back to me. I would start to cry and everyone would feel really bad. You know, oh, my gosh, anthony's crying, what are we going to do? And it's because I knew how to cry on cue and so we would use it as a joke to kind of prank people in my high school. And so when I got on New Amsterdam I was crying on camera and he sent me a text message my buddy from high school because you're still doing that, huh. So I'm like, yeah, I'm still doing it.

Speaker 2: 1:50

If you can do it, you might as well make a living out of it. There you go. So what got you involved in acting, and at what point did you know that you wanted to become an actor?

Speaker 1: 1:58

I've always wanted to be an actor. I remember I just thought about this recently when I was a kid, and I mean like six to eight years old my father was a traveling sales manager. He had multiple states and he would come home and he would sit at the end of the bed, had this little chest and he would watch movies and TVs late at night, and so what I would do is I wasn't allowed to watch the stuff he was watching, so I would crawl in, I would open up his door and then crawl in on my belly and lay next to him and watch the movies or deaf comedy, jam or full metal jacket or whatever was out that he was interested in. And hearing him laugh and just have his escape, I was like, oh man, he is so entertained and I was like one of these days I want to be in that box and entertain people like him who need a release, and so it would be funny. Because then I thought he didn't know I was in there and he would say go to bed, and then so I would get in trouble and I'd have to go to bed. But I always remember how much he would laugh and like the entertainment and the drama of it all and then also growing up as a kid, if I got in trouble a lot.

Speaker 1: 2:57

I would get rewards if I did good things. So I was normally in trouble. When I wasn't in trouble, my mother would say okay, you get to take the TV guide and you get to pick a movie, and so we had cable but we would have all of the pay channels on a lock. So she had to put in a code and I would sit there in the install and watch HBO or Cinemax or Showtime and that was my treat for being good is I got to watch different types of movies and I remember really going through the TV guide and picking it out and be really excited about it really going through the TV guide and picking it out and be really excited about it. So when I won Best Actor for Series Fest, one of the announcements was actually in the TV guide. I felt like that was kind of a full circle moment for the pilot that I had made.

Speaker 2: 3:33

And is your father still with us? Yes my father and mother are still with us, so what was that like for them to see this progression for you?

Speaker 1: 3:43

Well, it's funny, it's been very interesting. When I was 17, I'm graduating from private school, walsh jesuit, I'm going off to unc, charlotte and I. I sat down, my father was sitting in his car and I said, listen, I know you have all these plans for me to be this businessman, but I want to be an actor, I want to be on tv and film because, oh so, you want to be on tv and film and commercials and stuff like that. I said, said yes, he goes, yeah, that's not what we do. And he says so go, I'll give you this, I'll give you your first role as an actor. Go to business school for the next four years and act like you're going to be a businessman for the rest of your life. And so it was kind of shut down at 17. And he had some good points. You have no theater experience, you have no training, there's no logical reason for you to make it in acting. And so I went to UNC. Charlotte got a degree in communications. Later on I got a master's in business. And then I was around 32, 33, late, you know, doing well in my career.

Speaker 1: 4:34

I had a bad day at GE when I was working and I said something to my wife that, hey, I really should be an actor, I really think this is not what I'm supposed to do. And she gave me two options. She said you can either one you can go out there and you can try and you can fail and you can take classes. Or two, you can be quiet about it and never mention it again because you can't live in regret. Nothing sadder than the middle-aged man who thought he could have been a rock star. And from there I started taking classes, started booking some commercials, start going to New York we lived in Virginia at the time. I would take the train to New York, started booking commercials, getting agents and then it progressed from there.

Speaker 1: 5:09

By the time we moved to Atlanta I wrote and produced my own pilot that was in 50 film festivals and won 15 awards. And then I started booking co-stars. But, to answer your question, for my father, he saw the progression and he saw the business aspect of it, so he respected Ryan there. My mother really didn't feel like I was a true actor until I got Law Order, svu I had been on like six other shows and she said well, I don't watch those shows. Well, now you're on Law Order, you're a real actor. So everyone in Atlanta has been on Law Order. I mean in New York has been on Law Order at least once. But then to my mother that was the crux of actually making. It was getting on Law Order.

Speaker 2: 5:43

The pilot that you mentioned. That was FAM, correct.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Yes, I call it FAM. Family Always Matters. It's a story about a man with a twisted relationship between three women his ex-wife, his new wife and his teenage daughter his ex-girlfriend rather, and so you know it's a tangled web of relationships, but I wanted to show a day in the life of a blended family who does well for themselves. I think sometimes the narrative of black blended families is different from a white executive. And I remember one day at GE it was a boss of mine who was a director and he's like oh, this is my child from a previous relationship and this is my wife, and that was it. That was the end of it. And you know, you're in a barbershop or be an african-american if you have an ex and a child. So, oh, it's your baby mama and are you on child support? All these negative connotations. So I created a slick tv pilot to show what it could be like to be a suburban blended family.

Speaker 2: 6:37

I call it the, the modern age cosbys and that went on to win lots of award nominations, including Best Actor wins at Series Fest and other stuff. Was that something that because you were well behind that I mean you were the founder of the entertainment company that was behind that Is that something that you wanted to do more of behind-the-scenes stuff? Or was this kind of a one-off just because no one else was telling the story so you felt you needed to?

Speaker 1: 7:09

a little bit of both when I think about one of my favorite hip-hop moguls, jay-z. He said I didn't start rockefeller records because I wanted to be a ceo. I started it because nobody would sign me. And I say I I created fam and wmz entertainment because I couldn't book a plane ticket and so I couldn couldn't get on TV. I had zero co-stars.

Speaker 1: 7:25

So here I am starring in this pilot so that I could send that out to agents and managers and things of that nature. So the strange thing is, and the flip side of some success is at first Pham was there to help get me in the door and to get me co-stars and to get me agents and castings, and so I had a nice reel to send out on Actors Access. Now that I've been on Law Order, new Amsterdam, fbi, straw Screenboat, these movies, films and these big TV credits, now as my star meter kind of rises, I'm hoping to use that to go back and pitch fam as me, as the series regular and as the lead of the show, where before fam was just serving me and now I'm serving it. So it's a special relationship between me and my baby fam.

Speaker 2: 8:09

So you see more fam coming out then.

Speaker 1: 8:12

My goal is to pitch it to networks and it's a proof of concept. It was directed by Kyle Romanek, we shot it in 4K and this was a long time ago when that was a little bit ahead of its time. We're being ambitious, but it's still an amazing piece that is very interesting for people. The feedback is I don't see stuff like this on TV. Why don't I see these positive Black family stories and fatherhood on television? And I think that it's a narrative that's missing and I want to super serve that niche.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Now this is back in 2018, when you did the original FAM. What kind of evolution? Or now that you've done more work yourself, is 2.0 going to be a little bit different? Is it the same amount of what you see in it that you had in 2018? I mean, it's not that many years, but it's been a few years. How do you see the evolution in bringing it back? Is there changes that you're making or you keep it basically the same?

Speaker 1: 9:12

Well, I would probably keep the base concept the same. I mean, it was the pilot episode. I think what's different is I shot a $15,000. So, to win all those awards and do all that with no financial backing, 100% independent, if I got some real money behind me and we get the right investors, I mean we could tell a really big story, a big way, and it can move the hearts of a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 9:32

And now with streaming as big as it is I mean eight episodes, something like that I would like to do something that you and the wife could sit down and watch it in at night, you know, and it's something that was binge-worthy and every, every ending leaves you with a cliffhanger, so you have to sit there and hit next and you don't even want the credits to end. That's my goal for FAM. So as far as a an executive producer, I think on a grander scale would be different, but as far as a storyteller, it'd be the same. And as far as acting, I've been on some huge sets before. For now, I mean, when I did FAM, that was the biggest set I'd ever been on.

Speaker 1: 10:05

And so now, with NBC, cbs, bet, nickelodeon credits behind me, I would probably do things a little bit differently, but I didn't know any better. And when you don't know any better and you have a small budget, you go for it. If I knew then what I knew now, I probably wouldn't even try FAM. But because ignorance is bliss, I didn't know how hard it should have been. So we just kind of did it, and I think that's the beauty of being early in your career and just nothing but ambitious.

Speaker 2: 10:32

And someone might say that you did FAM back then. Why not do something new and different now? What is it with FAM that has more of a story? What is it that is left in the bottle, so to say, and why not do something else? Or is there other projects that you're looking at?

Speaker 1: 10:51

That's great. Yeah, I'm always looking at other projects as an actor and auditioning. I'm very busy doing the TV and film things. However, that's my life story. So that's the story about my daughter, my ex and my wife and how we get along and my daughter, my ex and my wife and how we get along. And my daughter now she's doing great. She just graduated from North Carolina AMT down in Greensboro, north Carolina.

Speaker 1: 11:10

She helped me with some of the writing on fam. My ex actually helped me with some of the casting for fam. So it was a kind of a family affair and it is part of my life story. And so you know that's the story I want to tell all the way back to being a kid growing up in the suburbs, being the only black kid in class, all the way through college and then dealing with having success in business and when to see your daughter and how to take care of the family and being a provider and being a positive influence, while balancing the relationship between an ex and a wife and a spouse, and so I think that is my kind of Cosby show. You know I should have called it Williams Fam and then everyone would have understood it was about me.

Speaker 2: 11:46

And do you see yourself I mean, you said before that you were an actor looking for some things, so you almost had to create WMZ to do this Now that you've done more of the acting, do you see yourself as kind of like a Tather Perry, where you're producing but you're also acting? But you're as kind of like a Tather Perry where you're producing but you're also acting, but you're building kind of your own little mini empire to tell other stories? Or did you make it now as fam and now you want to continue acting more?

Speaker 1: 12:18

Well, I want to continue acting more, but if the series regular, if those larger opportunities don't come, then I do see myself relaunching fam in a big way. But I think though, you know, getting my 10 000 hours and being on all these different shows and networks better prepares me to pitch it right. Because at first, when you go to pitch a project like fam and you're an unknown entity although they might like it, they might enjoy your acting no one else is really invested in you. No one even invested in your pilot. You only shot it because you had the funds to do so.

Speaker 1: 12:48

And so to say that you're going to be a series regular to a Netflix or to an Amazon and I'm going to star in this, I mean, that's your kind of you know your Rocky Balboa situation, I want to star in it. And everyone kind of goes, ah, what about this person? What about that person? And so the process I'm going through now is getting my business together and then also getting the credits together, so that that's not a question when I walk in the room and say I want to star in it, because now I'm Anthony Williams from Straw, anthony E Williams that was Agent Shirk on Law and Order and New Amsterdam and the funny guy from the Nickelodeon sitcom, strict on law and order and new amsterdam and, uh, the funny guy from the nickelodeon sitcom. And so I think it's getting closer to that point.

Speaker 1: 13:28

But I'm I'm making sure that there's no doubt in the room when I go to pitch fam again, to bet and cbs and netflix, that I am the right person for the job. And I think it takes a lot to to do that. And in a few years, you know, coming up on seven, eight years since fam, and I think my, my resume shows that I deserve to be the person to be at the helm of it. And so, yeah, I love Tyler Perry. He's an inspiration. I met him a few times. It's completely inspiring to be on his set and to see him telling all the stories that he wants. Yes, that is something that I would like to do eventually as well, but I also want to make sure I continue to show up on different networks and shows and improve my acting ability so that the producers and executives of the network we sign with understand that I am worthy.

Speaker 2: 14:14

Where did you get some of your drive? I mean, your parents sound like hardworking people, but there was some. I don't want to say he held you back, but there was concern about what the acting choices you were going to be. Where did this drive come from? I mean you have I don't want to say you have the picture in your mind, but you have certain aspirations and goals where you're dead set on that seem like they're not in possibilities that are going to happen. It's just a matter of when you have a mental checklist. Where does that drive and focus come from when a lot of times you've been told no, you can't do that or try it. If you fail, you need to go back? What kind of motivates you?

Speaker 1: 14:57

Yeah, I think that comes from the complicated relationship with my parents. So one my father was always driving me to be an owner, right? So he always says, hey, I said I wanted to sell cars. He said you don't want to be a car salesman, you want to own the dealership. And so that's the kind of mentality that he's always had. And both my parents have master's degrees from John Hopkins University, so education is very important. So I was going to college, whether I liked it or not, but with that mentality and once you realize what you want to do, just because someone says, hey, you can't be an actor or we don't do that, that doesn't change the values they've instilled in me, the drive, the notion of having ownership and to take a business-like approach to everything that you do. Like when I act I don't get paid directly. I have a loan out company called Above Scale, because as an actor the first thing you get paid is SAG Scale. So everything I want to do is Above Scale, so that's the name of my loan out company, wmz Entertainment. Wmz was the letters on the Jeep Cherokee Limited.

Speaker 1: 15:51

My father bought my sister when she was 16 years old. I said I have the pictures of like WMZ, I like that. And so I've always had this business mentality that hey, you put together a plan, you execute on your plan. My wife laughs. One time she came downstairs in Virginia I couldn't get an agent. It was like a beautiful mind no-transcript raised to say I don't care what people think, this is what I want to say, this is who I am and stand it. And now my father doesn't feel that way. He thinks about perception and you have to be professional and make sure you don't present yourself in a certain way where my mother's like you know what the heck with these people. You go be yourself. And so when you're on set, people don't realize you might do an audition in front of three people. You get on set for, like a law and order, there's 150 people there, quiet on the set, rolling action. 150 people are staring at you. If you get nervous or you don't like public speaking, you don't like attention. Even if you're the greatest actor in the world, you can't get out that first line.

Speaker 1: 17:03

And so it's a combination of all the business acumen that my father instilled in me, my MBA, my communication education, and then my mother, who has taught me not to care what people think and go after what you want. And then, to be honest with you, you know, I grew up, you know, in my early twenties I had my daughter. So you know, I'm 27 years old with a six-year-old. So thinking like a child and playing like a child and dreaming like a child came easy to me in my twenties and thirties because I was raising a child and so she helped me remember that. Hey, it's great to dream. Sure, you can meet Tyler Perry, dad, why can't you? You're my dad, your super dad.

Speaker 1: 17:41

And so all that, put together with my wife, my spouse, being supportive and saying, go after it, it just has been the perfect combination. And suddenly, you know, you start to have some proof that everybody believed in you the whole time. I say see you on Nickelodeon. Yeah, I knew you, you were always funny, you know. So I appreciate that. And then my family and my cousins all rooting me on down in North Carolina. I mean all that. And then my family and my cousins all rooting me on down in north carolina, I mean all of it has just been, it's been humbling and it's been amazing, uh. But I don't forget the early times. I don't forget how hard it was to get one line on a tv show or co-star that first sack check now you're your dad and I don't mean to have your dad be the villain of the story.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I think he was being a caring parent, that you know I'm gonna be an an actor as a parent. I can see how that would be, so I don't want to try to paint him as the villain. But your mom realized that you were an actor after Law Order, you said, because that was what she watched. At what point did you feel because, I mean, you made a leap your wife was supportive, saying hey, go to classes and do this. At what point did you feel that maybe not make it, because as an actor, you're always trying to get the next role and whatnot. But at what point did you feel that the move was the right move and that you had shifted from being a businessman to being able to call yourself an actor?

Speaker 1: 18:55

Yeah, when I was in my first of all. Yeah, my father's definitely not the villain, but he was concerned as a young black man, 17,. Stay out of trouble, stay in school, figure out a way to make money to feed your family and he was going to guide me along that process and he did all the way through GE and my other corporate executive roles. But he didn't have the tools to assist me in the acting journey and so because he didn't have the tools to assist me in that, he kind of steered me away from it. But what he didn't realize is all those business things I tell him every time we talk about it it's show business, it's not show show. So all those business rules he taught me still apply. So that's why he's not the villain. Also, when you asked me about when did I feel like I made it as an actor or at least was made the right decision? I think all order was restored the first time I saw Fam completed.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Once I saw Fam completed, my name in the opening credits I sat in a room full of people in Martha's Vineyard for their film festival or in Chicago at a film festival. I sat in over 30 rooms and theaters with people who it's been battle, tested and proven the laughter at the right spot, that the laughter at the right spot, or the laughter at the spot that I thought was dramatic, or the oohs and ahs. And then the questions afterwards what network is this going to be on? They wouldn't even ask me if it was picked up, yet they want to know what network. I knew that I had something special because I didn't have a whole lot of history in acting.

Speaker 1: 20:13

And here I am starring in a pilot and people were responding to it and so, rather, no matter what executive says or an agent says, I saw 50 strangers come out and tell me, you know, I cried or I laughed. I thought this was funny and I think that really was my uh, my test. It was part of my test and my testimony that, okay, I'm on the right track. And I took that swagger and that confidence back to agents and then that's how I started getting on TV and films. But that was the moment when I first sat in those rooms seeing fam, before any of the awards, just the applause alone. I was like, okay, we're onto something. I'm not crazy, you know, I can really do this.

Speaker 2: 20:48

It's interesting. You mentioned the business aspect of it. I just talked to Ann Marie Johnson, who was on what's happening now in Living Color in the heat of the night and so she's been around for a long time and she said we were talking about. You know, what's the one thing that you wish actors knew better as young actors? And she said the business element of things that they don't teach, the business end of it. So to hear you say that your father wanted the business end of it, even as an actor, was kind of interesting.

Speaker 2: 21:22

So you've done a bunch of stuff behind the screen. You've done in front of the screen. You've been an actor in a couple different shows where you've appeared in a couple episodes. You've been an actor where you've appeared in one episode. If, hypothetically you were to be offered five years as an actor on one show, or five years and I know this wouldn't happen but five years as a guest on five different shows, which as an actor and I know the logistics of the unions and all that stuff would be different. But as an actor, creatively, which would you prefer?

Speaker 1: 21:58

Yeah, I would do five years on one show. I've already done five years on different shows, right, and so I'm working very diligently to get my name to match my face and my work to match my name and to build that. I hate to say brand when people say brand, but I want people to understand when you hear Anthony E Williams, you're going to get the best performance, you're going to get entertainment, you're going to get drama, you're going to get comedy, you're going to get a multitude of things and there's a lot that I want to do. There's movies that I have written, there's other scripts that I have, pilots that I want to produce, no-transcript. Look at Will Smith never acted before he did Fresh Prince, but because he did Fresh Prince consistently and greatly, then he moves forward.

Speaker 1: 22:55

You know, my goal now is to be on enough episodes where I'm the same as a series regular. I want to hit 10 episodes of guest stars. So, okay, I could be a series regular. I did it on 10 different shows. Now trust me to be a lead on your show and then eventually I'm going to launch my own show, and so I think that those are the way that you pay your dues, just like I did college and all that stuff. I went to the groundings and made sure I had the right to improv on Law Order because I had that background and I went to school for it and things of that nature. So I would definitely say, on one show to build up that notoriety and then launch pad what I want to do moving forward. One of the hardest things about pitching is who's tied to it, who do you know, who do you have?

Speaker 2: 23:35

And I want to say me, I want that not to be a question about walking in the room and then where do you see, because you have your career path as an actor, but you're also the founder of wmz. Where do you see that career path for? And this is generally following you, but just as the the founder of it, do you have a career path for that? That doesn't always include you, or is that? Is that your little kind of ticket to ride also?

Speaker 1: 24:01

yeah, well, so wz entertainment, that's who owns the rights to all of my tv shows and my pilots. I have three pilots written, I have a feature film written and that's the. That's the avenue that I'm going to work through with that. And then also I'm in corporate america too, so I'm a sales director right now. Uh, I've had multiple jobs, from Firestone, pepsico to GE Appliances to LG Electronics.

Speaker 1: 24:22

So you know, sometimes it gets a little awkward. I show up with my customer and I have my sales manager there, my salesperson there. We finished the meeting. They're like okay, anthony, now where was this commercial? We just saw you in. And so you know, I have to eat, I have to provide for my family in between gigs and in between shows, and so I'm still working very hard and diligently in corporate America and, you know, sharpening my business skills as I continue with WMZ Entertainment and above scale LLC. So I'm working on all of them at the same time. But WMZ Entertainment is my holding company for my IP, if you will, for all of my ideas, and so as my notoriety rises, I will release more projects through WMZ Entertainment. That's my goal.

Speaker 2: 25:00

Tyler Perry comes up to you and says I want to fund you and WMZ. Here's Tyler Perry and Money here's my studio. What's the story that you I mean not just Pham, because Pham is, but what's the next, in addition to bringing Pham back? What's the story that you would love to tell?

Speaker 1: 25:32

that's interesting. You know, I bring fam back. I have a sitcom called the joneses that I've been working on. It's a tv pilot 30 minute comedy which is completely different from fam fam's, more of a dramedy.

Speaker 1: 25:37

And then I also have a a pilot called served where I play actually a secondary role and it's all about a process server who's out of his mind and a little bit on the spectrum and so, like you know little things from server. Like there's a judge who needs to be served but nobody can find him. So he gets on the train with his grandson and a clown comes up to give him a balloon and then he serves the judge, and so it's a procedural drama. But it's all about high end process serving to high value individuals. So kind of you think of like a hit man is going after all these high value individuals it's the same thing, but only with a legal sense, because he's serving them, because they're being sued or being charges brought upon them.

Speaker 1: 26:17

So those type of big ideas which comes out of jumping out of airplanes and things blowing up, those are things independently I feel comfortable doing and those are the things that I would bring to a Tyler Perry if he said hey, I want to back WMZ Entertainment, I want to help fund your ideas. If he said, hey, I want to back WMZ Entertainment, I want to help fund your ideas, those big picture things that I have in my mind, that I don't quite have the budget for and I don't want to cheapen it by trying to do it on the low end, then I think those are the things that I would present to Ann Marie Johnson yesterday, who's a talented black actress, and we were talking about shows and their perspective from a white point of view to a black point of view.

Speaker 2: 27:08

How important is it for you?

Speaker 1: 27:08

to tell the stories through the eyes of a black man versus telling a story just in general. Yeah, I think it's more important to tell the story in general. I'm the type of actor where, if someone said to me what's it like being a black actor, I'm like I don't know. I'm an actor who happens to be black, because nobody asked Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks what it's like to be a white actor, right, but I understand what the question is. I think, though, that it's important to show all the roles and to come genuinely to tell the story as a real human being and as a person. I shy away from writing anything that is specific to the Black experience, because I don't believe there is a Black experience. There's just an experience through the eyes of somebody who happens to be Black. So, if FAM is about a family story, it just so happens to be that the characters are Black, but there's nothing specific to being Black in the story, and I think sometimes in media, you know, you see a story with black people and suddenly it's all about being black, and that's somehow how every day is for African-Americans. Now, if I'm driving around in my Mercedes, I'm having a regular day as a regular human being and the police pull behind me. Suddenly I'm about to have a black experience and so I think you can sprinkle those things in there. But it's very important to see Black Americans and individuals living a true and fulfilled life where it's not about being Black. I can't remember the name of the test where, if you have two women in a film or a show and they have to have a conversation that doesn't involve a man, I feel that way about being Black in entertainment. Can we have a whole show, a whole episode, where we have all these Black characters and never does it come up about the fact that they're black? Can they just be human beings?

Speaker 1: 28:34

The majority of what I book are not black roles. I book open ethnicity roles and as black ones I show up to the set and so the verbiage and the language is all that of an American living a human experience, and I might add ad lib here or there, but it's an adlib based on my life, not just because I'm black, and so I love it when I book these roles that are not specifically to any race, because I believe, you know, as an American and as an artist, we should be able to play anything that we want and not just specifically something written for a black man. And in certain situations I get in trouble when I talk about this. But when I was in the Atlanta market, as soon as I would get an audition that wasn't open ethnicity. Suddenly there's double negative. Suddenly the N word is there, suddenly the verbiage is less than educated, and I know. Then it's written by somebody who has a perception of what a black person would talk like and that's disappointing. And that's why I think the open ethnicity roles is my specialty.

Speaker 1: 29:26

I won't sign with an agent. If they sign me as a black actor, I'm like you can sign. I'll sign with an agent if they sign me as a black actor, I'm like you can sign. I'll sign with you if you sign me as an actor who happens to be black. And if they don't get that, then I leave the room and I don't sign with them. And I think that's a business perspective. I think it's a different perspective. A lot of actors see the agents as the most powerful person in the room. But it's a partnership and if I sign with you, you have to get me and you have to submit me to what I'm interested in.

Speaker 1: 29:49

And if I'm getting 10 roles and they're all black, or I'm getting thug number three, something's wrong. But if there's a doctor, there's a lawyer, there's a father, you know, when you say father, I don't see race, I just see a father with a kid, and so those are the things that I think are important. But I think showing up and being authentically you and letting people see representation, that people see an educated black man argue with his boss on television or an educated black man arguing with Vincent in SVU about why they don't want to interview the suspect Never on SVU did the fact that I was black come up at all, and I think that's imperative to show that, hey, that agent Strick was having a bad day, but he was having a bad day because he is the FBI agent, had issues with the NYPD, and I think those are the type of stories I'm interested in telling, and maybe one day I'll find the right script for something that that caters to a black experience for a good reason that that can, that can expose some, some things in America that need to happen. But right now I feel like I'm focused on changing the negative, narrow and sterile, the narratives and the stereotypes of Black Americans in cinema today, and I feel like it's happening.

Speaker 1: 30:56

There's a new show that I just watched on Netflix called Forever. It was an amazing show. I binged it in like a day and a half. Beautiful cinematography, great storytelling. Yes, there were some racial elements there, but for the most part it was a lived experience between a girl who wasn't doing so well and a fluent young man went to private school, and never did it have to be about the fact that they were black, and I think we need more stories like that to remove the negative connotation and the stereotypes that a lot of people put on skin color, when we're all living a human experience well said, I just didn't see in the an interview with um, the actor that played Bubba Gump in Forrest Gump.

Speaker 2: 31:34

Oh yes, and he was teaching some people acting and they got calls in for the role of Bubba Gump and he told his agent you know, I want to try out for this film.

Speaker 2: 31:48

And they're like, well, they don't know who you are and they don't know you know this or that. And he told his agent that kind of what you were saying, that if you don't understand who I am and don't see me, how I see me, then you're not the agent for me, because I'm not just a black actor, I'm not just this or that that you can put me in a box. If you can't see me as my agent, then I'm going to go with someone else and they're like oh, you're right, let's get you in the role and let's see if we can get you in an audition. You got the audition, you got the role. So it's interesting that you talk about how people think that the agents are the most powerful people. But it's really that relationship of understanding how you see yourself and how you want to be painted, versus just a box to check off and and whatnot.

Speaker 1: 32:43

So, oh yeah, now you're in netflix straw, tell us a little bit about how that came about and what the experience was like oh wow, so straw, so Straw is an amazing film starring Taraji P Henson, tiana Taylor, rockman Dunbar, about a woman who's just had it and she gets down to her last straw. She goes through a lot of difficulties and it's a day in the life of somebody who's at their wit's end. It's funny I booked this movie Screamboat a horror film in New York and I was working in New York when I booked Straw and I had a conflict. But it was a low-budget horror film. It ended up getting a theatrical release. So I went to both of my agents. My Atlanta agent had the booking for Straw, my New York agent had the booking for Screamboat, and so we agreed that, hey, I needed to go down and do this Netflix film.

Speaker 1: 33:28

We met with the producers for Screen Boat. They changed a couple of scenes around and made sure I had a solo scene and I said, listen, I can do this, I can shoot this day. I have to be at Tyler Perry Studios at 8 am on Tuesday. I need to be out at 3 pm on Monday. Why do you need to be out at 3 pm on Monday? Well, I just do so. I wrapped up on the film and I left at 3 pm I'm headed to the airport to fly to Atlanta. Sure enough, starts thundering lightning and I tell the Uber driver, hey, don't go to the airport, just go to the rental car center. And I went to Enterprise Rent-A-Car. I rented a white Audi and I drove 16 hours through the night from 3 pm to 6, 7 o'clock in the morning to get to Atlanta to meet my call time at 8 am in atlanta, georgia, because I knew something could go wrong and that there was weather in the area. And that's how I I got into straw because I made sure that I I drove there to get there at the last moment. People were laughing at me on set because we're in holding in between takes and I was in there snoring oh, you're a pretty tired chap. I'm like you have no idea what I've been through. And so sometimes you have to sacrifice.

Speaker 1: 34:30

I went a whole year the year before I had booked nothing. I had four bookings last year and I was double booked for films in New York and Atlanta with Netflix and a theatrical release. So you never know. But when those opportunities come we have to do whatever it takes to do it. You know I can't. I can't text the studio and say, hey, I missed my flight, but I can be there at two o'clock. They would have gone with somebody else.

Speaker 1: 34:49

So you know, malcolm X used to say by any means necessary, that's how I go about acting. By any means necessary, I'm going to take advantage of every opportunity. And so I auditioned for it, I booked it. I auditioned for the the the screen boat, I booked it. But then you had to make a choice. You know there's a whole week long Netflix film with Tyler Perry and a huge, a huge, um, huge characters and huge actors. Are you going to stay in your independent film that you're already booked on? Are you going to figure out, as a businessman, make a business decision, to work out a deal? And I worked out a deal.

Speaker 2: 35:18

It's kind of like you mentioned your wife earlier had said or hinted that you can't have your feet in both ends, where you're part doing business and staying on the acting or you're doing acting. You can't keep both of them going. You need to choose, and so choosing the one means sacrifices and doing things that you have to do and you're able to do it.

Speaker 1: 35:47

She wasn't saying I had to choose one. She was saying that what you can't do is keeping being a businessman and talking and regretting not going after your dream. You know my finances. My endeavors are financed through my Corporate America resume, which is smart, because there's things that I can do that some actors can't. If I was waiting tables, I can't fly into New York to go to a red carpet premiere and stay at the Ritz. I can't make sure I have the right PR agent while I'm working through other things. If I just use my acting money to only finance my life, then I don't have to invest in the acting business, and that's what I do a lot of is investing in the business of acting, and it is expensive, sure.

Speaker 2: 36:31

So now straws out. Is there anything on the horizon that we can look forward to seeing you in, that you can talk about?

Speaker 1: 36:37

Yeah, nothing that I can really talk about. You know, even nowadays, when I get scripts, I have to assign NDAs before I even read them. But I think you're going to see some more of me playing authoritarian roles, you know, detectives, commanders and hopefully soon something big where I'll be a father, because that's where my heart really is and that's the true me, and while I've played a lot of FBI agents and SWAT commanders and things of that nature, I've always been a dad, and so I think that authenticity is what's really going to be my breakout role once I once I get that on the main, on the big screen.

Speaker 2: 37:12

Now you have the one child, correct?

Speaker 1: 37:14

Yes, just one child.

Speaker 2: 37:16

What is her thought of you being an actor? Does she have any desire to be an actor?

Speaker 1: 37:21

Yeah, at first when we, when I made fam, I wanted her to star in it. She was super young. I think she was like 13 or 12 years old. So I think she was like 13 or 12 years old, so she was a little bit young. She was a little gun shy. I've taken her to New York. She's taking classes at Actors Connection, as I did for a week, and she's done acting like that. But right now she's just enjoying being a graduate and starting her career.

Speaker 1: 37:46

We did have a little I don't want to call it a gentleman's bet because of me and my daughter. I was trying to become black famous before she graduated college. So I want to say that there's going to be issues at her graduation when people take pictures of me. I didn't quite make it. I got a couple of side eyes, but Straw came out after her graduation and Straw was going to be my. I got your moment. So we had a good laugh about that at her graduation party that I finally got this big Netflix film with this brilliant black cast and I could have been black famous before graduation, but didn't make it.

Speaker 2: 38:12

Maybe for her wedding.

Speaker 1: 38:13

There you go, there you go. She's going to be off to grad school here pretty soon, so I'll definitely get her for that.

Speaker 2: 38:19

So when we talk about you know, when we look at you, we look at your career. We often associate you know Anthony Williams, rising producer, writer, actor. We often associate, you know Anthony Williams, rising producer, writer, actor. Uh, we always list the your things that you've done. Uh, new Amsterdam straw, whatnot? When you get up in the morning and you go into the bathroom, put a little water on your face and look in the mirror, who do you see?

Speaker 1: 38:47

Wow, that's a great question. Who do I see? I see a complicated man who lives two lives I really do and he's constantly willing to sacrifice the stable life for the life of passion. And when I wake up in the morning, I don't know which life I'm going to have to live. I woke up one morning and I had a whole business deal and a whole business plan for corporate America. And I looked at the phone it was Tyler Perry Studios. And now I'm off to Atlanta. I mean, that's the nature of the beast. I wake up in the morning, I don't know if my boss is gonna call and I closed a $3 million deal. Or does Dick Wolf's people need me in New York to reprise my role as agent strict? And that's exciting, you know, it's really exciting.

Speaker 1: 39:36

But every day I wake up and I look in the mirror, I see more and more of an actor and as a uh, an artist and as somebody who wants to tell stories to the masses.

Speaker 1: 39:39

And one thing I will say about me and acting yes, I'm a businessman, yes, I like to tell stories. A lot of actors say that, but I'm, I'm playful, I am, I am I'm about 17 years old, mentally Like I really like to have fun and pretend, and I mean we get paid to play make-believe. And when I pull up to a set and they have all those trailers out there, I feel like I'm a little kid. And you got your old BMX bike and you see six or seven bikes outside of someone's house. You know, growing up in the nineties you knew they're inside having fun, they're inside playing. When I parked my car near a bunch of trailers, that's how I feel, like I'm putting my bike down. And you know, when you see those trailers in New York City, atlanta, georgia or LA, people are inside playing. And so when I look in the mirror, like you said, and splash water on my face, I'm hoping that phone rings so I can go throw my bike down and go play Nice.

Speaker 2: 40:25

Well, check out Straw on Netflix. Phil now. Anthony Williamss, thank you so much for coming on and look forward to seeing what your career does. Looking forward to seeing what wmz entertainment develops into and, hopefully, the return of fam thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Look out for fam and definitely go check out straw. I appreciate the time, thank you.