Greg Staffa: 0:00

You're listening to the Staffa Corner Podcast, a Staffatarian look at entertainment and life with your host, Greg Staffa. Anthony Luciero. He spent decades working with uh visual effects, including Industrial Light and Magic. And he has his first feature film, East Side Suchi, was out. Currently, he's promoting a paper bag plan. Anthony, thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

Thank you for having me, Greg. Appreciate it.

Greg Staffa: 0:48

So the first question that immediately pops off my mind before we get started on digging deeper was you spent over a decade doing visual effects for industrial light and magic. You worked on films like Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, Iron Man. So naturally, your first feature film would deal with race, gender, and your second film deal with disability. What made the transition going from something like Iron Man to something that deals with race and gender? And we'll dig into it more, but that's just what I wanted to ask first off.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24

Yeah, it's you know, what when I started working for Industrial Light and Magic, and I have to say that was the pinnacle of my career. It's what I've wanted to do since I was a child. I'd watch the Millennium Falcon on a green screen and just wanted to know how that was done. And so that was it. So I I finally got to work on my dream job at Industrial Light and Magic. And then, you know, the luster starts to wear off after a while. Once you've got that pinnacle job, no matter what it is. Uh and maybe maybe that's just for me, but I I would work these very long hours on these visual effects films, um, like Iron Man or The Avengers, and but those were great films, but there were some films that I worked on that were not so good. And you could see where they spent most of their time, most of their budget, on the spectacle, on the visual effects, and less on the storytelling. So it was a bit frustrating for me, and you know, you I just had to tell myself, look, just shut your mouth and keep working and make a paycheck, and that's nice, or you could do something about it and make a film. If it's that easy, right? It's it's uh terribly difficult to make a film, so but I decided to do it. So that was the first feature was East Side Sushi. I'd made short films before that. I went to film school and I would do short films about every year, just narrative pieces and documentaries as well, uh, just to get that muscle, just to keep that muscle going. And then I just decided I'm gonna write this feature film, and it would have zero visual effects, and it would solely concentrate on the story and the acting and the characters, and that was it. Completely opposite of where I was from in my career, and so yeah, that's that's where Isai Tsushi uh stemmed from. And then uh yeah, yeah. So uh, but that that's kind of where it started.

Greg Staffa: 3:14

I had to get that out of the way because that was the biggest question on my mind. I actually have uh Fon Davis coming up on a future episode, and he was a big aisle on person. That's right. Just wanted to get those that question out of the way because that was a glittering kind of contrast. It's like going to chef school and being trained as as a great sushi chef and then getting your dream job managing McDonald's. And it was like, well, that's great. That's that's a little bit and I don't mean to compare what you're doing to being McDonald's, but that just means the contrast of what you had spent years doing to what you one would expect that you were doing the latest, you know, Marvel project or something like that, not something that that dealt with personal issues.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Well, I think I think working at McDonald's probably pays better than uh being an independent filmmaker, I must say. You know, it's like uh you don't make much money doing this, I tell you. True.

Greg Staffa: 4:07

So let's get started, let's jump back again. Again, I just wanted to touch on that. But tell us a little bit about your upbringing, where you're from, what got you in started in filmmaking?

SPEAKER_01: 4:17

Yeah, from Oakland, California, born and raised there, East Oakland. So the the notion of film or going into film just doesn't exist there uh in the 80s. And so, but like I was saying, I used to watch these behind the scenes with my father of Star Wars. I was enamored with Star Wars, and Empire Strikes Back was just blew my mind at uh, you know, this is probably like 11 years old. And then um, so I I that's the thing, I watched these documentaries and I wanted to, that's what I wanted to do. You could actually make a living working in film. Oh my god, like what this is a dream. I could fly spaceships and blow things up and make miniatures and get paid to do it. It just as a child, just that is the dream. So yeah, so I I kind of just uh went to film school, San Francisco State, and I have to tell you, once I found out Industrial Light and Magic was in the Bay Area, it was north of Oakland in Marin, uh that blew my mind. Oh my god, I can't believe they make Star Wars here in the Bay Area. That's just it's insanity. I have to go work for that company, and I did out of and I I uh was a commercial editor out of college and you know, learned the avid, which was very new at the time. So I was an editor, documentaries, and I got hired at ILM because they had avids, they just didn't have avid editors at the time, the late 90s, and so uh so I was a good fit there, and and you know, when when I was being interviewed, they were working on episode one, uh, Star Wars, and to see another lightsaber fight between you know Darth Maul and Obi-Wan as I'm being interviewed and walking through and I'm looking at you know some of the rough footage of that fight scene. Uh I think you know, I was gonna lose it. I was just gonna faint. And uh, but I had to hold it together. You can't you can't act like a fanboy when you're walking through industrial light and magic, or you won't get you won't get hired. So uh I I kept my cool and I was like, oh, very nice, very nice. Okay, yep, Star Wars. I see you're working on that. That's wonderful. And and then I got the job, and you know, the the rest was history there. But yeah, and I I I worked in visual effects for uh I would I would uh probably more than two decades uh bopping around in in visual effects, and uh it's a good paycheck. It's getting rough though, right? It's getting rough to stay in visual effects here in in uh in this industry in Los Angeles and anywhere. So it was probably a good time for me to transition out of that field.

Greg Staffa: 6:48

I think going to ILM or Skywalker Ranch or one of those places, I think you get like a free pass. It's like when you go to the fair, none of the food that you eat has calories. So I think you're allowed a certain level of fandom. And you gotta remember back when you're talking about you know, Star Wars now is everywhere again. It's you know, TV shows and movies coming out, or some are good, some are but back when you're talking about the idea of Star Wars coming back was almost unheard of. I mean, we we always had that thing where that was something nice from the past, and that's our childhood, and we dream of things and we had books and stuff, but the idea of a new Star Wars movie uh during that time was just something that had fans just in awe.

SPEAKER_01: 7:33

So yeah, exactly. And I was just happy to to be a part of that. It was because it was dead, right? I mean, Star Wars was dead at that time. And who knew that today in 2025 it would just have exploded as as big as it did? But yeah, yeah, at the time it was yeah.

Greg Staffa: 7:50

To see that what must have been amazing. It was amazing. So you you're doing you know visual effects, you decided to do your first feature film. What made you decide, you know, this is a transition that I can make? What were kind of the steps in between that you used to to better prepare yourself? I I can't imagine a lot of transition as far as you know building things or creating things at ILM to something that has, like you said, zero you know digital effects for East Side Sushi. What made you have that confidence and what was that like?

SPEAKER_01: 8:26

Yeah, it's kind of a bit of blind confidence to dive into a feature film, never doing one before. But you know, before that, I had done, I would say six, seven, eight or so short films that I directed myself that I wrote, and it's just you know, you're you're you're working that skill set of writing, and how does that writing transform onto the screen? Okay, I get it. Now you start to get it as you're making short films. So make short films. If you make short films, you will see how everything transitions onto the screen and when it's done. So it's it's a great exercise. But you know, I I knew back in the probably early 2000s or so that short films were not going to get me anywhere. Uh they're definitely not going to make money in short films. You can't really make money in short films, but uh but it was schooling for me. And so doing the feature film the the the the great thing, one of the great things about working full-time, having a full-time uh job at ILM, you know, with benefits and and you're in the union and it's great, is I and I was single and I got to save up my money. And so it's like, okay, it's time to either put a down payment for a house or for a feature film. And it's stupid, it's really stupid to like, I'm gonna go make a feature film. That's the that's what I'm gonna do, that's where I'm gonna invest my money. It's really just dumb. And I did it. But I would have regretted buying that home and never had uh gone towards my dream of making a feature film. So sometimes you just gotta do that. And uh, if I were to do it again, go back in time, I'd probably make the film again and make that stupid choice. But I did it. Yeah, because you know, nobody's knocking on my door, nobody's like hanging, you know, giving me bags of money to make my film. Yeah, I knew I had to invest in myself. So that's what I did. I I was the sole executive producer on the film and and paid for. And it was really difficult, of course. But but I got through it and you know, begged and borrowed people to to do it, and and that's when I came out with E-side Sushi. E side Sushi is a story of a Latina who wants to become a sushi chef. And and that whole world, um, and the film did great. It won tons of awards and festivals, and you know, it's uh you talk about indie films. We couldn't afford to hire a named actress, so I just got a great actress. You know, I got uh a name is Deanna Torres, who played the lead role, and she's fantastic, but distributors want faces, they want names that are recognizable. So it's a very tough journey to sell that film. But at the end of being on the road a year with that film, finally HBO uh purchased it, and that was a big win for me because it was I was gonna die on the festival circuits. Like, okay, I've been on the festival circuit for a year with this feature film, and it's won, I mean, at the time it won 12 awards, and uh it's like but it is a festival favorite, it's an audience favorite. I could see that, but it's just it's gonna die here and it's gonna go nowhere. And then finally, you know, when HBO saw it, they saw it at a at a festival in uh Miami, Miami International, and they liked it and they wanted it. So I was like, oh my gosh, okay, yes, you can have this film. And so, and of course, you know, when you get somebody like HBO that wants your film, all of a sudden, you know, the other crabs start to come out and they want a piece of it. Oh, wait, wait, HBO wants it. I want that film too. It's like, no, I I talked to you you know six months ago and you didn't want the film, and now that HBO wants it, now you want it. It's that crazy game in Hollywood. It's like nobody wants you until somebody wants you, then everybody wants you, and it's just the crazy game. But um, but that's that's how the the first thing, the first uh film came about.

Greg Staffa: 12:14

Was it a deliberate calculation to I mean, I think a lot of people naturally would kind of cling to to what they know and their past, but you went, I mean, this isn't anything special effects. Was there that a deliberate kind of separation to not make anything that you could fall back on your previous work or hire friends that you had worked with before that from ILM? Or was this just the story that you found to be compelling and regardless or not if it had special effects or not, this is what you wanted to tell?

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

It it's a few things. It was most of it was economics, was uh you know, because I had written some other screenplays that were sci-fi or action film, and but this one, Isai Sushi, I felt like of all the stories that I had written, this is the one I could make financially. So uh of course it was a story that was close to my heart, because if it wasn't, I wouldn't make the film. I I always have to feel strongly about it to move forward with the film because you're gonna spend a lot of time and money with it. So East Side Sushi was something, you know, it was originally uh a Latino. I'm Latino, so and and and it was uh originally gonna be a Latino who wants to become a sushi chef. So it's that um that dual cultures, you know, of having a Mexican trying to become a sushi chef. And then uh I was interviewing sushi chefs at the time, and I realized no, I don't see any women doing this job. I hadn't had never seen a woman sushi chef ever. So I immediately went back to my screenplay and changed it to a woman just to add that dynamic uh of gender uh and race um in just trying to get a job, right? You you would never think that uh gender and race would would would matter in getting a job in a restaurant, and it does. It seemed it was very compelling for me to tell that story. It just there's a lot of dynamics to it, and I just thought it was interesting to see that. So yeah, and and and unfortunately I couldn't use all of uh you know, like anything at Industrial Light and Magic, I couldn't use any of their support because it was all visual effects. And I there there are visual effects in Isaitsushi, they're just you don't know that they are visual effects, but there are some in there. And then we did some of the the mix at Skywalker Sound, so I was able to use that as well. But but yeah, had I made a sci-fi film, I really could have taken advantage of of working at Industrial Light and Magic at the time. But but uh no, it's like I said, it's mostly financial why I I do these smaller films.

Greg Staffa: 14:48

Did you find that kind of freeing in a way that you didn't have those kind of safety nets under you?

SPEAKER_01: 14:54

Um both. Uh freeing uh freeing in in the sense that I didn't have to answer to anybody. Uh there's nobody paying for this film other than me, so I I could choose whether it's black or white, or you know, doesn't matter. It's my my film. That's freeing, but it's terribly difficult and stressful to take your savings and pour it into a film, not knowing if you'll you'll ever make your money back. So so that that is the restrictions are huge when you don't have enough money to uh you know pay for a certain set or feed enough crew people. It's like, oh my god, I I really need 30 people to do this scene, but I can only afford 15. You know, it's like I can only feed 15, so that's that's start scaling back. So that's those types of uh sacrifices you have to make that are really make it very difficult. So yeah, on one sense it's freeing and easier, and on the financial side it's it's harder, so it's give and take.

Greg Staffa: 15:57

Listening to your last answer, I I kind of hit a question form in my mind, and I could be completely stupid on this, but maybe not. But I almost wonder a lot of industrial light and magic is about fooling perception, about making uh a five-inch spacecraft look like it's uh you know, half a mile long flying through the air to to make it look like dinosaurs are real. Does that creative mindset help in when you're doing a film like Isaiah Sushi, where you said, you know, I have to find a way to make it look like 30 people are in a room, but I only have enough money for 20. Does some of the creative approaches that ILM taught you to create, does it help you as a director to find ways when you're trying to save money to kind of not cheat the system, but visually you're creating something that maybe isn't there or you're filling a a space that isn't there?

SPEAKER_01: 16:56

For sure. Yeah, because uh at ILM we would shoot uh you know these little practicals, these small sets on a stage after the initial production is wrapped. So we would go on a stage, we'd shoot things, and we'd insert it into the film that's already been shot months prior, and it works. You know, you just make sure you light it correctly and and match the lighting, and and it's seamless, right? And then it is that magic that you think about when you're producing a film using that little bit of magic of um like yeah, any side sushi. You know, we needed a shot of the lead actress at the restaurant, but we weren't at the restaurant anymore. Okay, how about we do have the curtains from the restaurant? Uh let's put the curtains behind her on a C-stand and we'll light it just like she was at the restaurants. And it's you know, you look at that footage, okay, but we'll just try to match that. And uh and it's it's movie magic uh when she cut it in. It's like that is completely seamless. It looks like she is at that restaurant. It's not the same scale, of course, as doing visual effects, but it is you are able to think outside the box and be like, no, we can get that shot. We can get that shot. We don't have to be at that same location. And we could just fake it. And once you add the sound effects of you know the restaurant underneath or music, and it just kind of all ties it together and it's seamless. So yeah, I would say it it does help um production-wise to think in those ways of alternate ways of uh getting a shot done.

Greg Staffa: 18:33

And this next question might be a little bit too uh above your pay grade or whatnot, but like I've attended South by Southwest, I think seven years, uh seen many great films, a lot of award-winning films on the festival circuit. But there seems to be kind of a a rough over the heads of everyone that they can go on and win film festival films, like you said, it's hard to get it out into distribution. Why is there kind of a separation between recognizing these award-winning films in a film festival to then being brought to a wider audience?

SPEAKER_01: 19:13

It's solely based on who's in the film. I mean, that's a or who made the film. It's it's it's solely what names are attached and how much money it's this it's a big money game, of course. Like our film Paperbag Plan, you know, we have two actors who are amazing. They both won awards separately at completely different film festivals, and their their performances are amazing. But you don't really recognize them. Lance Kinsey, maybe you recognize him from uh police academy films, but but these distributors, and I had the same problem with Isai Tsushi, could not get that film sold because they didn't recognize the lead actress. So, you know, you could win an award at Tribeca or Tell Your Wright or any other film festival, and these distributors they'll look at it and say, like, I want to be able to put Thumbnail of whoever named actress and people will click on it because they recognize him or her. And so it it but I understand that. I understand it's a business. I mean, filmmaking is seems more business than art now, and I understand that. So it makes sense from a distribution side, but you know, just um to go with with this idea. I I wish people in acquisitions, I wish they would go to all these film festivals other than the big ones, the the the top five, top, you know, the the ones where the markets where they sell the films. I wish these acquisitions would would curate from other film festivals around the country and around the world, because they would find some amazing storytelling that you don't see normally uh on streaming. So yeah, it's it's sad, but that like I said, it's it's more business than art. And uh and that's just how it works. And you know, it's like once you uh accept that, accept that it's um it's a bit unfair, but once you accept that, then you're kind of able to move on and be like, okay, I'm just gonna like I'm gonna make my film, I'm gonna make it the way I like it, and we'll just see what happens. We'll just you know, throw it out there to the wind and see what audiences attach to it. And but in in a sense, you're able to sort of move on um instead of being frustrated all the time about the way the system works.

Greg Staffa: 21:26

Does the state of Hollywood concern you right now? Because I think we're at a a crossroads. It used to be that DVD sales could make up for smaller films to be made, that the the sales would boost a little bit of the profit. As far as your background with Industrial Item Magic, you know, they just closed down the 3010 studios, live in 2023. Is there a concern as you know, an up-and-coming director of of the stuff, the kind of the safety nets that are in place, the shops that are in place to do visual effects, those are all kind of going away?

SPEAKER_01: 22:04

It's uh twofold, I think. Visual effects, it's taking a hit with AI, of course. And so now anybody can just with a prompt make a world that didn't exist before, and they could do it very quickly. So visual effects is taking a hit on that side. I mean, the the film industry, yeah, yeah. The 3210 was who moved in after Industrial Light and Magic moved out, and now it's gone. Industrial Light and Magic is still around, of course, they're in San Francisco, but but visual effects companies are they're they're taking a hit unless they can go to other parts of the world and do their VFX. At the same time, AI is catching up very quickly, and uh, you know, I but I I don't know. It's it uh everybody's it seems like they've been gloom and doom with the film industry, and I just sort of feel like for me I mean, okay, for for me, it's like you just kind of because I have these stories that I need to tell, I just have to keep moving forward and telling these stories. I'm not going to all of a sudden stop, although I should, and and think, oh my god, my 401k is just depleting, or is it that it's not growing and I'm not getting a paycheck. And so yeah, this the smart thing would be to like sort of move on and go into a different industry uh because there's not a lot of work in LA. It's all the studios, it's been really tough. But I think if you have a story to tell, then you're just gonna be like, I'm just gonna do it, I'm gonna find a way to do it. And I don't know what the outcome is gonna be. I don't know if it's gonna make a dollar or a million dollars or whatever. But that's not why I went into the film industry. I didn't go into the film industry to make a lot of money. I went into it to tell stories, and so I'm still gonna keep doing this as best I can, right? Without depleting my my kids' college fund, which um maybe I will. I don't know, I haven't decided yet. But you know, um, yeah, it's uh it's it's tough out there, I have to say.

Greg Staffa: 24:07

If you were put in charge of a major Hollywood studio, is there a change that you would make? Because I think, you know, talking about your growing up, you used to watch uh behind the scenes of with your father, I think you said you know, we used to have those the Lord of the Rings, you know, DVD commentary were amazing look at that behind the scenes. And I think it got a lot of people inspired to work in film, you know, those kind of things on DVD features. And now we really don't have those. There really isn't that that avenue of creativity that brought us to Spielbergs, that brought us to Lucas's.

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

Yeah, that's interesting. Uh yeah, the DVD that I I loved all those commentaries that just don't exist anymore. And it uh let me go back to your last question too, just to touch on that. You talked about DVD sales and yeah, my my last feature had DVD sales and that helped. And so I I don't know what how we can survive just on streaming. So I do hope that and I don't know if like if I were ahead of a studio, I would make this call, but it would be nice to have more DVD sales out there, physical Blu-ray sales out there. I would try to push that, but I mean, yeah, if I were ahead of a studio, the this the changes I would make is uh well, bring work back to to LA for one, bring it back to the US. These tax incentives are just decimating uh our film industry here. So yeah, bring work back. Yeah, it it it's look, I I I I'm not in charge of these you know multi you know, hundred, two hundred, three hundred million dollar projects that are out there, but uh it seems feasible that it's like how much money are you saving by shooting this in Ireland? It's like can't you just like I I think you could find a way to keep jobs here in the U.S. So that's that's one thing. And the other thing is I was saying is in order to find good movies, I would, I would not go to you know Toronto or fight at Sundance to find the best. It's like why do why do people think that those are the best films out there? Uh I I would curate from other film festivals all across the country, and that's where you're gonna find some great films. Not just at one or four festivals, you're not gonna find the best films. It's impossible to think that those programmers are the end all be all for great films. That's just ridiculous. But that's what studios, that's all these that's all that's where they go. It's like they're all gonna fight for whatever's at Sundance. It's like that's ridiculous. I don't get I don't get so anyway. Yeah, make Greg make me ahead of a studio and I'll I'll make I'll pull in some good films.

Greg Staffa: 26:53

There you go. I think I saw an interview with I think it was Rob Lowe, and he was hosting a game show where they fly the contestants from LA overseas somewhere because it's cheaper to do that than to film in LA. It is. It was just like that that's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 27:12

It is, but uh I I again I'm not in charge of these budgets, but it's like how much are you actually saving at the end of the day? Just you know, it just seems ridiculous. But uh, you know, uh I I just feel like there's so many people, so many great people here that need the work. Just spread the wealth around, you know, just keep keep jobs here. It's gonna help everything, it's gonna help the economy, and it just helps everything.

Greg Staffa: 27:36

What advice would you have for another young and up-and-coming director that's looking at you know, starting off doing some shorts or stuff like that? What hope would you give them to or is it just this is a passion? You're not gonna get paid a lot. It's it's like a teacher, being a teacher. Teachers don't make a lot of money, there's not a lot of appreciation, but the ones that do it love doing it, and regardless of of the pay, is that now what we have to kind of have that approach with with people in Hollywood for filmmakers?

SPEAKER_01: 28:07

Un unfortunately, yes. I I think the people that are making that are wealthy are making making a good paycheck, it's few and far between. But I think it's just gonna be like being in theater, right? You're in theater because you love theater, you love working in theater, and you're not doing it because you're gonna be rich. So I feel I mean, that's at least the notion that I take with making films. I'm doing this because I'm probably not gonna be wealthy being a uh a filmmaker. Would love to be, but it may not happen, but I can't keep thinking about that. I just gotta like I just gotta think about the next film. I gotta think about the next story that I want to tell. And uh it is true when when you receive, like on paperbag plan, I've received so many emails uh and posts about the film and how it just I don't know, it just it brightened their year and they just love it. And um it's a good reward to get that. And it's you know doesn't come financially, doesn't help my my bank account, but it it does feed the soul. And I think that's just how that's how I'm moving forward with it. Uh I I have to unfortunately, I think if you're gonna be an actor or you know, I think you also have to have to have to have a side hustle. You have to have some kind of income coming in between the uh the jobs you get as an actor. So I think that's just gonna be the norm moving forward.

Greg Staffa: 29:33

And let's talk about a paper bag plan a little bit. This one focuses on disability and returning to the workforce. Tell us a little bit about that story.

SPEAKER_01: 29:42

Yeah, paperbag plan, it's a story of a father uh who has a disabled child and he has cancer. And so he decides he's going to train his son how to bag groceries so that his son, his disabled son, so that he could get his first job and you know, start a path of independence for his son. Uh and I know it does sound gloom and doom and sad, and but it's a very inspirational film. It just deals with the a few hard things in life, like cancer and you know what what happens to my child with a disability once I leave this earth. But but it is a very uplifting film and has bits of comedy thrown in there to lighten it up. But yeah, it's uh the story itself was inspired by my mom and uh my brother Eddie, who was disabled. And my my brother Eddie uh he couldn't walk, he couldn't talk. He's uh the the one thing Eddie could do is he could open his mouth. When you put some puree food up to his mouth, he could open his mouth. That was the extent of what Eddie could do, and so but it was a very loving relationship between my mom and Eddie. But you know, my mom was up into her late 70s, she'd still lift Eddie out of that bed and into the wheelchair or down the hall and into the bath. She's very strong and she was able to do that. But we, you know, we we would think about what's gonna happen once mom is not on this earth anymore, who's gonna take care of Eddie and what who, you know, that responsibility. So we would think about that. And then um the other half of the inspiration was my sister Margie. She has a daughter with Angelman's syndrome, and her daughter, my uh Sarah, my niece, she has the cognitive ability of maybe a um a one-year-old. So uh my sister Margie, she passed away in 2018 very quickly, very unexpectedly from cancer and left behind her daughter. So it was a scramble of, oh my gosh, who's gonna take care of Sarah? And and uh how does this work? And so that really between uh my mom and and my sister that kickstarted this film paperback plan of uh of yeah, what happens to your your child once once you leave, and are they set up to handle life on their own and get a job?

Greg Staffa: 31:58

A lot of what you're doing uh seems a lot more personal. That you love being a director, not because of the cool special effects that you're you're used to. It's about telling personal stories about race, about gender, about disability. Is kind of what you're being a director, is it almost in some ways a calling to to be able to tell these stories that others might not have? Or because it seems like a like I said earlier, your your path seems completely different to what you were trained to do to what you're doing now. Do you see it as a calling to to be able to make these sacrifices, to wonder about your 401k in order to tell these stories, or is it just what you find your passion in?

SPEAKER_01: 32:41

It it's uh it's both. It's it's um it's a passion that uh I would like to feed, but uh yeah, financially if I can't afford to do it anymore, I just have to stop. But yeah, they they are passion projects, and uh I I don't know if I do them because I I've I've thought about this before. I mean, you know, the cliche of you make the film, you write the film that you'd like to see. And that is exactly what I do. I just write the stories that I've never seen before and that I'd like to see. And it's usually because I come from East Oakland, it's very uh a lot of minority groups there, um, both race and religion and very diverse area. So growing up, uh you know, all of my short films, they all they always had diversity in it. So it wasn't like this new catch, this catchphrase in my life. It's like, oh, diversity, let's do that. It's like, no, it's just kind of like uh I just saw I don't know, it's just kind of how I grew up. I just it was multicultural, and that's kind of how I saw my screen of life. It's like, well, it would have these people in it because that's how I grew up, and that's that was America for me was seeing all these different people, this diversity. So so, anyways, I wasn't trying to fill a quota either with my feature, either of these feature films. I wasn't um now with diversity, you know, there's not very, it's yeah, I don't know, it's probably one percent, uh, I think it's maybe three percent of uh people with disabilities uh are in film or TV. So again, I wasn't trying to fill a quota at all. It's just it came from my life. My brother was disabled, and I wanted to tell that story. And I do feel they are important stories. I do feel paperback plan is an important story, especially because my lead actor has cerebral palsy and and scoliosis and he's autistic. And so I think it's it's it's amazing to see, and his name is Cole Massey, it's amazing to see him thrive and just kick ass and just do such a great job in my film. And yeah, you know, the hope would be that uh well his career keeps thriving and keeps going, and that more there will be more stories of people with disabilities in them. They should be stories that doesn't they it doesn't focus on their disability. The disability has nothing to do with the film, is the hope. Um, this film, my film, does their disability of course plays into it, but uh it's you know not the the central focus.

Greg Staffa: 35:22

Does Hollywood need a massive shakeup in your mind? It almost seems like I mean you look at a film like Goodwill Hunting, uh you had two young writers that no one had ever heard of in Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, you know, that wrote a story, and they got uh unknown actor named Robin Williams to to come and be on part of their little you know cute movie. Um I'm joking about Robin Williams, of course. But do more actors in order to save Hollywood need to be more open to taking chances because you don't see you know, it's hard to find an A-list actor that's willing to do a short film or willing to give, you know, even though you can win all these awards in a in a film festival, uh a lot of actors avoid them like the plagues because it's not you know big financially or it's big but do we need more chances like a Robin Williams who I think most people would not approach a goodwill hunting today in like a Robin Williams role.

SPEAKER_01: 36:30

Yeah, i if these actors cared about the craft of it, they they would do it. But when we were casting for Paperbag Plan, it was originally written as a mother's son. And so my casting director we had reached out to maybe 35 or so actresses, maybe 30 actresses, that I I had handpicked and my casting director handpicked, that we thought were at the top, they were like excellent actresses. Um, but they had not had the they maybe hadn't been a lead in a feature film. Uh maybe they are doing TV, they're like a side character. So but but these were actresses that we really uh respected and thought like they would be fantastic in this film. And so, but the long story is we got rejected from all of them. You know, we sent them the script. The screenplay was uh was a Sundance uh quarter finalist for for the labs there. So we would attach that, that it's quarter finalists with Sundance. But we also had the stipulation, and we'd send out um these inquiries to these actresses that we would not have a trailer for the actresses to sit in on set. We just could not afford a trailer. Film was being self-funded. So I think a lot of I probably should not have said that in our inquiry letter to these uh to these actresses, because I think it scared them off. And they're like, oh god, this seems like really, really low budget, and it's you know, who knows if it's gonna be any good. But so we got turned down from all of them, and so I'd worked with Lance Kinsey in a short film, and we just you know, my my wife was like, Why don't you make about a father and son? We don't see very many inspirational father-son stories, and so I was like, and I'd been thinking about it. It's like okay. Uh there weren't very many uh weren't very many white actors working at the time, white male actors working at the time. They they had taken a hit. So I was like, Well, I I know a white actor, Lance Kinsey, he's amazing. And uh I did a short film with him, and it was a comedic role, but he was great, he was fantastic in it, and so we didn't audition, we didn't try, we we didn't reach out to anybody else. So I just gave it to Lance. I was like, Lance, can you read the screenplay? If it speaks to you, then you could have the lead role, and he loved it. And um he he loved, you know, we we worked great together on the short film, and he loved the story and had he had a personal connection to it as well. So he he agreed to do it. But uh but yeah, I I do wish other actors would be like Lance and like yes, I'm gonna take a chance. You know, otherwise the these stories that are really important that need to be told, they're not being seen by anybody because there's nobody famous in them. So I do wish I do wish a lot of these actors uh would would um would not think about their wallet for once.

Greg Staffa: 39:26

It almost seems like we're enamored by the George Lucas story, you know, and you building someone in your garage, or you know, Steven Spielberg, where they they started off with you know stuff in their garage or their backyard, they're shooting stuff, and the creativity that grew out of those legendary filmmakers, and they start I mean, Star Wars had no budget, and you look at some of the stuff that they were able to do and put together and and we it we almost romanticize it. But now if a Steven Spielberg or George Lucas type were to Be starting off now, it's almost shunned upon of not having the money and not having the background. So we we love the idea and we love the story of how they got started, but now it's something that isn't embraced, and we almost need to be reminded of you know what talent could be lost if we don't start embracing some of these award-winning films and directors of these storytellers, if they have no place to go and don't have the funding, and what's gonna happen years from now of of of Hollywood? And I think unless we make some kind of changes soon or start embracing things or start recognizing these awards, um something needs to change.

SPEAKER_01: 40:46

Yeah, I I I think I feel like independent films are going to rise again. I do think uh I was hoping when whenora won the Oscar last year, I thought, okay, fantastic. This is gonna give rise to more independent films. Because, you know, you look at it and you know, distributors are always looking for somebody famous. There was nobody famous in that film, and it still won and it did well. But so it hasn't quite taken off the way I'd hoped. I'd hoped that more independent films are gonna be looked at and awarded and recognized, but it hasn't quite happened, but I think it will happen. I think people are just there's already the superhero fatigue. That's already I've seen that in the news. People are kind of tired of superhero films. So I think that's that's taking place, and people just want to see more heartfelt stories. And you know, paperbag plan is uh I've had some reviewers say it just feels like an older film, like a like a Capra film or something. But and it does. It's like that's just I feel like films of the 90s were really amazing. That's when independent films like Pieces of April or you know, even Pulp Fiction was a kind of an indie film. But they're very creative and fantastic storytelling in the 90s. And I would love for Hollywood to go back to that type of storytelling that was very creative and didn't have as much money, but it was look, I I I like uplifting films, and I I think this notion of dark uh is just um I don't know, just the people just want dark. These studios want dark, they want dark films. Uh I don't know. I I feel like I've I've spoken to audiences. I've been on these Q ⁇ A's, I've been at these film festivals, audiences want to be inspired, and these studios are not listening to the audiences, I think. And um so, anyways, my film's inspirational. Paperbag Plan's an inspirational film, and and uh I do have people that appreciate that.

Greg Staffa: 42:45

Again, East Side Sushi, it was you said it was picked up by HBO, right?

SPEAKER_01: 42:49

Yeah, it it's on Amazon right now, though.

Greg Staffa: 42:52

Okay, and then Paperbag Plan is making the the circuits right now.

SPEAKER_01: 42:57

Yeah, we just finished our theatrical run. It is on the Academy screening room, so it's in uh consideration there uh for you know all the awards, and then we should be somewhere on on uh VOD, hoping by end of January or February of uh 2026.

Greg Staffa: 43:14

So coming up. All right, well, Anthony, thank you again so much for coming on. I look forward and and hopeful uh truly to seeing what the future has for you. I think it's it's frustrating to hear, you know, uh there's a lot of hope in your voice, but there's also I think concerns over, you know, can your passions meet what is needed or what can be be done, and a lot of it's out of your hands and you can be award winning in the film festivals, but unless Hollywood starts embracing things, I think we're losing a good chunk of our art and a good chunk of the people willing to tell it. So uh stay in it. I'm not saying you know, cash out your kids' college accounts, but stay in it and I hope to see more of you in the future. Thank you, thank you. I hope so too.