Welcome And Mark Hofeling

Greg Staffa 0:00

You're listening to the Staffa Corner Podcast, a Staffatarian look at entertainment and life with your host, Greg Staffa. My guest today is someone whose work you've almost certainly seen, even though you may not recognize his face, Emmy winning production designer Mark Hofeling has spent decades creating the worlds that actors get to inhabit. Mark, welcome to the Staffa Corner podcast.

Mark Hofeling 0:45

Thank you so much. Nice to be here,

Movies As Survival In Childhood

Mark Hofeling 0:47

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Greg Staffa 0:47

So tell us a little bit about your upbringing, where you're from, and what childhood was like.

Mark Hofeling 0:53

That's interesting because it definitely feeds into why I pursued my work and the way I pursue it. So I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, uh in the 70s and 80s, and it was a very tumultuous life that was very unstable. So I found a lot of solace in movies and television, especially movies, you know, this little window I had into another world that where there was happiness and there was order, but there was also adventure and color. And, you know, I grew up in a you know a part of the world and at a time in a society that was very colorless, uh, it was very bland. And so that was just, you know, watching watching film was uh such a treat for me and such an escape. Those those those you know, things the movies I saw as a kid were kind of stepping stones across this very tumultuous river of my young life. So it's a very Gen X thing to say and it's very cliche. Um, so I apologize to your listeners, but uh the the light bulb really clicked as far as what career I wanted to pursue when I was when I was seven years old.

Star Wars And Finding A Calling

Mark Hofeling 2:13

And somehow my dad got us to the front of the line on May 7th, 1977 for Star Wars Episode 4 on opening day in Salt Lake City. And uh, you know, it blew my little mind. And there was a there was a moment when the Millennium Falcon was streaking across the screen that my dad leaned over and said, you know, there's people that make all this stuff. And that was it. I was like, oh, you can go through the looking glass, you can go to the other side of this thing and be where the magic happens. And, you know, that that lit a fire, and through uh just a series of bizarre events, I found myself on my first set, you know, just a little over a decade later.

Greg Staffa 2:59

Up until that point, have you always viewed yourself as a creative kid? Or was that something that just the spark, once it was in you, you found that creative drive in you?

Mark Hofeling 3:10

You know, that's a it's it's funny you say that because I I knew even as a you know seven, six, seven-year-old kid the stork had dropped me off at the wrong address. Because there were no I in my my immediate and my extended family, there was no nobody who exhibited a creative impulse. So I was this weird kid that you know had a terrible time focusing, and all I did all day was doodle. And you know, my my people had no idea what to do with me. So I was this this creative kid from from jump. And what's really funny too is well, funny or or an interesting pathology, is that the I grew up with hoarders and in a tiny, tiny house with three brothers, and it was just chaos at all times in a hoarder house. And so I became really obsessed with trying to carve out a little corner of orange order and aesthetic for myself in whatever bedroom I was sharing. So at a young age, I would watch like do you remember the old, the old, old, old, was it Ralph Bakshee Lord of the Rings animation where it was all rotoscoped? Like I'd see you remember that the Hobbit.

Greg Staffa 4:30

I mean, I the Lord of the Rings. I I enjoyed maybe it was the Hobbit. The Hobbit, though, was the one that just captured, I mean, the songs and the, but then they came out with Lord of the Rings later and it had a different look to it. Um I know both of them, but I was a Hobbit fan.

Mark Hofeling 4:46

That was the the Lord of the Rings one was this this process called rotoscoping, right? Where they they shoot actors kind of just in a in a space and then they trace over them. Yeah, so the animation has this very strange quality. Anyway, I that lit me up, and so I kind of created this little corner of my room as like a scene from Lord of the Rings with you know cardboard cutouts I'd made and just kind of junk I I pulled from our heaps. And I I was basically designing sets when I was eight or nine years old without knowing that's what I was doing. Interesting.

Greg Staffa 5:25

Now I I find it curious because you mentioned that you know the stork dropped you off at the wrong house, but yet in telling your story, your dad seems very instrumental in realizing enough to lean over to you during the movie and tell you something that lit that imagination. So as far as being different, I get, but at the same time, your your dad seems very intuitive into knowing you enough to be the one that lit that match for you.

Mark Hofeling 5:57

Yeah, it's kind of funny, isn't it? Like that that uh there can be those incongruities in life, uh, you know, and it's I I have to give him credit as a stop clock. He was right, you know, twice a day. And that was there, I think there was something in him underneath kind of the his own damage and the religious um uh zealotry that kind of that was able, there was something still unbroken in there that was able to look at my humanity in a way uh that that came through in really rare moments like that. But absolutely, yeah, I I've I've always credited him with that.

Craft Versus Digital Filmmaking

Greg Staffa 6:36

It it's amazing. I wonder where films would be today, because your story is a little bit different, but how many people in the industry can you talk to that says I got my start after watching Star Wars?

Mark Hofeling 6:51

It's crazy, right?

Greg Staffa 6:52

It's just it doesn't seem like we give Lucas enough credit, not only for the success of the movie and the the success of the franchise, but just from a filmmaker creativity standpoint, I mean, the the revelations that came out of of that, the people that came out of that and the development of film and how many people were inspired. I just wonder if we took away that element, how different films might be today.

Mark Hofeling 7:19

Oh man, who knows? I mean, that was you know, that was in the in in a similar way that to how The Wizard of Oz was revolutionary technically and creatively and narratively in the 1930s, Star Wars was completely revolutionary in in you know the 1970s. And you're right, I think part of it was because it was it hit a lot of us, a lot of Gen Xers, I would say, in the sweet spot of our own childhood development, that not only the adventure of it and the fun of it and the excitement of it, but the the you know kind of un unprecedented creativity of the world he created. And there obviously there were lots of great science fiction and adventure things before that, but it was so specific that I think it hit us a lot of us in that just in the right developmental spot, you know.

Greg Staffa 8:17

Well, it was a time where you could, I mean, it was before the internet or or the technology was just kind of really evolving to a more digital world, but it was also a time where you still could be creative. I mean, kids back then we were creative, and now you're not seeing that as much. And I'm trying to think of a film these days where a young kid could see it and have that same kind of influence that you had with Star Wars. You know, sure the Marvel movies do great and they're make a lot of money, but I've never heard of someone saying, I saw a Marvel movie and I dream of becoming, you know, a a set designer. It just doesn't happen like that anymore. And so I think we were on a creative path back then that was kind of the end of the creative era, and that came at its peak and kind of got the last of the creative people out there into filming.

Mark Hofeling 9:08

So yeah, I mean that's a that's a super interesting point, and that's something I think about a lot because we've got I think we've gotten to a place as far as like design and what what you see on screen, where the tools, the modern tools, have kind of supplanted the creative process in a way that is not, I don't think is great. Like when visual effects are a an addition, when they're just a tool, I've used them in my movies all the time because I can't afford to build a 30-story castle, right? So I'll build the the lower the lower uh you know walls of the castle and the gate, but then visual effects will finish it. To me, that's an appropriate use. But the the way that it has just become it's really an infinite toolbox, and that takes that takes the craft out of it. You know, when you and I when we watch something that has miniatures, when we watch something that has uh foreground mat paintings, maybe we're aware of it, but I have such a respect for the level of craft that went into that, you know. I I have respect for the the handmade wizardry that uh clever, talented people made. And I I feel like I I agree with you on in that aspect that I think we're kind of losing the handmade nature of what gave films so much charm.

Greg Staffa 10:39

I just had just the other day the gentleman that that uh worked job of the huts, tongue, head, and left arm. So he ate the little creatures and stuff like that. And it was fascinating to talk to him, but we also talked about how now they have digital job of the huts or digital huts, and it just doesn't carry the same. And I think even George Lucas, as brilliant as he was technology-wise, I think that's why the sequels didn't do as well, is because instead of just replacing, you know, building the first floor, like you mentioned, and digitally creating second and third floor, everything was just green screen or blue screen then, and everything was digital, and it lost kind of a humanity to it. And I think that's one of the things that was so instrumental in the earlier Star Wars films, is yeah, you might know it's a miniature, you might know it's a matte painting, but for some reason you just believed it more than if it was just a digital thing, which kind of takes you out of it sometimes.

Mark Hofeling 11:44

I I completely agree with you, and I think I think the prequels were um you know, as a as a young fan, obviously I've mentioned how important that first that the first three films were to me. I mean, I think Hoth is probably the the the pinnacle of the Star Wars, you know, empire, the universe. But the the prequels felt like a betrayal uh to a young heart like my own, because not only were was it so bloodless and soulless, just this endless digital universe that just felt so synthetic. It was a I think it was a betrayal of uh, you know, there's a great series about ILM that maybe you've watched where you know he and he created that company to help him make Star Wars. And it was it was just a bunch of freaks and weirdos sleeping on the floor of this, you know, of this warehouse in the valley, figuring out how to do this stuff. And um that wizardry, that that handmade wizardry was the DNA of Star Wars. So I agree with you completely that the prequels, not only narratively and just visually were were horrendous, but the uh the the fact that they're they felt so anti-handcrafted and so anti-human, I think, was um it's bit it's still hard for me to get over.

Greg Staffa 13:14

So your dad planted the seed and you had done some you know set building and stuff like that. What was it about you know production design and stuff like that that that was the route for you to take?

Mark Hofeling 13:27

Because you know, I think it's because of my obsession with um uh uh first with being able to kind of control a space for myself, and then really resonating with with those those first you know films I saw, and I was like, wow, the fact that so for instance, after my dad kind of enlightened me to that, uh and I remember seeing not long after that, you know, when did Raiders come out? 81, two, something like that. Yeah. Um, and then seeing Raiders a few years after that, knowing full well that somebody made all those places, right? That somebody thought about every one of those things, and that they had the tools and the money to make that stuff. And I was always, you know, I I was very hands-on as a kid because I I kind of made my own toys out of our junk heaps. Um and I always loved making stuff with my hands, drawing, and so to see that uh like the the the Nazi flying wing plane where where Indy has the fight with the big the big Nazi guy, the fish fight, that was like the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my life. And I was fully aware that somebody drew it and somebody built it. And I be I developed an incredible professional jealousy at the age of like 10 or 11. So I was like, god damn it, I've gotta find my way to that place.

Greg Staffa 15:06

Now I have to ask, growing up around when you did, I I don't know if we're similar ages, but it sounds like we're around I'm 57. Okay, I'm almost 52, so kind of around that age. Yeah. Digital cameras were just becoming, or well, video cameras were just becoming popular. Did you have one as a child? Were you making your own little films, or was this all kind of in your head and and drawings?

Mark Hofeling 15:34

We it was all in my head and drawings. We didn't have a video camera. We were my dad was we were kind of a living museum of the Great Depression, even though we were a middle class family. So we didn't really have a lot of the modern toys that regular suburban families had. So, you know, we were a lot of what we did was salvage stuff from dumps. And so that's what that's a lot of what I spent my childhood doing. It was kind of between that and church. So yeah, we didn't have a lot of those those middle class pleasures, I'm afraid.

Production Design From Script To Set

Greg Staffa 16:11

Now, you're no, I mean, you've done a lot of different things, uh, but one that a lot of people are aware of is high school musical. I kind of want to focus on that just because a lot of people are aware of it. Can you walk us through a little bit about what a production designer does? Because I think many people think that you either just went to a a high school that was not being used or out of season or you recreated a high school. What actually goes into doing something like that? It's a lot more than just setting up cameras in a high school or you know, creating the look of a high school and filming. Can you tell us a little bit about the process? When do you come in to the everything as far as you know the drafts are being done, or where does that process begin for you?

Mark Hofeling 17:00

Yeah, so just generally, a production designer is is one of the first crew people to come on, right? So once the script has been written, once the studio has, you know, bought it and developed it to the level they they're comfortable with, pardon me, and and want to shoot, and they've hired a director, then one of the first decisions they make is, you know, generally they pick where they're gonna go, what what town they're gonna shoot it in, what part of the world. And then they bring on a production designer. You know, they'll hire a producer, they'll hire some uh, if they decide they're going someplace, they'll hire a local location manager and scout to start looking at stuff, and then they'll interview and hire production designers. And depending on the movie, you know, if you're talking about Dune or you're talking about, you know, Spider-Man, the production designer will get a year, maybe more of prep time, right? So the Disney movies, because I've done, I think I've done 26 movies at the Disney Channel, uh, and whatever the Disney Channel became after streaming Disney branded television or Disney Plus. Typically, those films nowadays are eight, nine, ten weeks of prep, and maybe some pre-production for the designer if they're very fantasy or conceptual, like the descendants movies or like the zombies movies I did. So high school, and then we'll we'll prep, we'll we'll scout locations, we'll choose locations, we'll decide how we're gonna treat each one, we'll decide what's gonna be built on stage, and and then we'll go into the shooting process, right? High school musical was in an era in 2005 when we shot it, was in an era when the Disney Channel was making four to five million dollar uh Disney Channel original movies, TV movies, right? So very modest budgets. And we would normally have five weeks of prep, I think maybe six at the most. So very, very tight. So when I I had done a couple uh Disney Channel original movies in Salt Lake City, where I was, you know, working at the time, uh, and they were they were bringing these four and a half, four, four and a half million dollar pictures there, uh, because it was only an hour from LA, it was non-union, it was a generally a cheaper place to shoot. So I'd made a couple of movies. I had never, as I mentioned, my family were not into fun or joy or any human expression of joy on film or otherwise. So uh we didn't, I didn't grow up with musicals at all. And I didn't work on them in high school in the in the theater department. I had no contact with musicals. So the third script in my history at the Disney Channel that landed on my desk was called a high school musical or the high school musical, I think. I read it and I thought, wow, this is super interesting. There were no songs in it, yet I didn't understand how what that membrane between reality and song is in a in a non-diegetic musical, meaning where people burst into song in an unreal kind of way. So I didn't, I had really had no idea what to do. So then uh Kenny Ortega, the director, creator, you know, the great mind behind kind of Disney's Golden Age, the channel's golden age, showed up. And uh, I think we had five weeks of prep. And I said, Boss, I am super excited about this, but I really don't know how to make a musical. And he was like, Well, then let me show you. And he was incredibly generous and took me kind of into the process. I went and uh sat at the table in uh dance auditions with him. I'd never seen anything like that in my life. I would hear sit with him as the CDs of temp songs came in from Burbank. I think it was difficult back then, it was difficult to send a file that big over the internet. So it was FedEx CDs that kept coming in, and I would listen to the music and think, wow, this is cool, but I don't understand how this all fits together. And then I I went to choreography and saw the kids, you know, working working the the numbers, and I'm like, I think this is gonna be really cool, but I'm not sure. So, as far as what we did as a design process uh for high school musical, because we had so little money, kind of your preamble to this to your question was not far off the truth. We had to pick a high school, and I didn't I think I had a $20,000 construction budget, which you Know in some of the later Disney movies I'd done there, I had millions, you know, a couple at least, maybe three, four million. So you you get a sense of this this the scale we were working with. And I was the one that pushed East High in Salt Lake City. It's it's funny. I was just there with Kenny for the 20th anniversary. We did a presentation in front of the school, and they were lovely. They were so it was so much fun. They're putting on high school musical as their school play this year. So we went, we were there for another reason, and we went to the school and did this uh this presentation. And so I said to the East High kids, you know, as one of the two people, because I'm the one that pushed them to go to East, as you know, one of the two men who made your high school the most beloved high school in the world, I have I have to admit something. I have a confession to make that I am a Highland Ram. So that's the that's the across town rival of East High School. That's where I went. So the kids all booed, it was fantastic. But when you don't have a lot of money, Greg, every every decision you make has to be really good. So East High School to me was the only choice with its high ceilings, it was clean, it was gleaming, white and bright, it had that incredible cafeteria with the tiered levels. It's become kind of the the seat of the universe of high school musical. And all the other schools around that, you know, in the zone we were working in were just these brown, you know, not atypical high schools, brown, low ceiling, not a lot of light. And so East Tide just really sang to us. And as soon as I took Kenny in the the door and we looked over the wall at the cafeteria, he was like, Oh, yeah. So, you know, we then I was able to kind of maximize how we used what little budget we had and bringing graphics in and trying to bring some more color in. But we couldn't do a lot. Interesting.

Making High School Musical Feel Real

Greg Staffa 24:09

Now I have a quick follow-up question to something you said that never occurred to me. A film about a high school and a high school film that's a musical, why because I uh it never dawned on me, but why does why did the musical part play so much into your concerns about whether you could do this or not? What was it about music that impacted you from a set design? Or was it just an excuse to kind of get the nerves out?

Mark Hofeling 24:41

It is it was both. What I didn't understand is what where is that threshold for me as a designer between reality and fantasy? How do I, when when Zach begins to sing and or Vanessa begins to sing in one of these songs, and they're in a hallway, I was struggling to understand what happens next as far as as far as scenically, right? What am I what am I providing? Now, the in the first high school musical, it didn't transfer into the world of pure fantasy uh very much, meaning they just remained in the high school. So when when they like, for instance, there's the the first musical number I ever saw shot on film that I was involved in is a musical number called Stick to the Status Quo, which was uh in that in that iconic cafeteria. And and you know, the the the first time Kenny said, okay, we're gonna do a full rehearsal, you know, no marking, which means no no dancers take, you know, half-asset, everybody go 100%. We're gonna go from start to finish, camera rehearsal for the four cameras to to practice to rehearse. And they did a full run through and I got the chills. I was like, oh, this is what musicals are. This is this is incredible. I've never worked on anything like this. But in that musical number, they the they don't go anywhere. That doesn't go into a fantasy space, they stay in the cafeteria. So that was uh the same with uh, you know, there's a the probably the most famous number from high school musical is we're all in this together. That is the big finale for the movie. They stay in the basketball gym. So that was a specific kind of musical. Now, as I advanced in my career with Kenny Ortega and and my other Disney mainstay director, Paul Hohen, we both both made the the huge, you know, each of the hit musical franchises for for the Disney Channel. I we started pushing more and more into a transition into a fantasy space, which for me, you know, now that I was comfortable with the format, for me was way more exciting. That was my, you know, a bit that was my exercising that Star Wars itch, that Raiders of the Lost Ark itch, where I got to like create fully imagined spaces and and environments and musical, you know, there are sorts of musicals that are pure fantasy that allow that, like those.

Locations Versus Sets In Series Work

Greg Staffa 27:20

Is your how is the relationship between like a location scout and what you do? How does that work life balance work? Are you always pushing let's create a set because then I have more control over the environment versus location scout saying I found the perfect spot for for this scene? How does that all work? And is it you know a smooth transition, or are you always trying to to build from scratch to control things?

Mark Hofeling 27:49

Yeah, that's a great question. I the the production designer is technically in you know the creative boss of the locations department, right? We direct the search for locations and the hunt for locations, and it's not so simple as you know, if you've got money, you build everything, right? For instance, uh I I imagine if you're like me, you're a fan of of Michael Mann's Heat. Yep. Okay, great film, like incredible film.

Greg Staffa 28:21

Deepel coming out, I think in a year they're working on. I know, I'm very excited about it.

Mark Hofeling 28:27

But a a great film, probably one of the best heist films uh ever. And as far as I know, they built almost nothing. And they had the money to do it, right? But they built almost nothing because the creative decision was the real, you know, Michael Mann is like, no, I need to be in the world, I need to feel like it is the world, and Los Angeles offer him, you know, everything he could possibly need for that. So it's it's not always just money means you always build, right? Where where it starts to become a little more defined is you know, the the smaller a space becomes, the more difficult it is to work inside. So for instance, an apartment or a house, right? It used to be when I was young, and we were, you know, doing true movies of the week for ABC, NBC, and CBS, we would shoot in family houses for 10 days, two weeks, three weeks sometimes. And it's a nightmare. And despite all the precautions you take, the houses get trashed, you can't light properly, there's no room for the camera. So I'm, you know, the the default for me is let's build the stuff that you know would kill us to shoot in if we can afford to do it. But there's times where you know a location is perfectly good and and preferable, you know, a high school is is a big thing. And though I've built portions of high schools in later movies, uh there's no there's a lot of times no compelling reason to go anywhere to to build it on stage, right?

Greg Staffa 30:06

Now, one of the things that you've done, like for the high school musical, you were there from the beginning. Um, and other films and stuff you've been there from you know the start of production, but in looking at your IMDB, something like the Mighty Ducks game changer, you're credited with one episode. Right. What is it like coming into something that already has that established look that has this feel that has a color tone to it and everything like that? Is that something that's you know a new challenge for you, or is that just you stick with the status quo and if it's not broken, don't change it? How does how how do you approach that differently or the same?

Mark Hofeling 30:46

Well, it it um the the issue with the mighty ducks, and and I've only done a little bit of series work. I did the the mighty that that episode of Mighty Ducks and I did uh Julie and the Phantoms. But the the thing about the Mighty Ducks is I did the first episode. So I set the tone. I set the tone and then COVID happened. So we shot one episode and then COVID happened. And I I had something else brewing when we finally were able to go back to work. So um a good friend of mine who was the art director on the first episode took over as production designer for the rest of it. But I built, you know, I built the ice rink and and uh you know set the tone, set the tone for the show. So I haven't, and it this happens a lot that designers on something like a series or a movie franchise will follow an established vibe. And uh I haven't had to do that yet, but it's it's just it's it's something that's very normal. And so a new designer will want to put their imprint on this whatever the series is, you know, some of these long-running series like The Good Doctor or or Game of Thrones, or you know, you you have to honor the material because you can't just start from scratch, but then you find the places where you can, you know, show your true colors.

Greg Staffa 32:18

No, you were influenced. I mean, your dad pointed out the Millennium Falcon, and that really became your symbolic of what your career had become. Is there anything now that you've done that some little kid basically uh younger you might see and say that's your Millennium Falcon? Is there something that you're a set, uh a location that you you helped create an environment that you created that is your Millennium Falcon?

Mark Hofeling 32:50

You know, it's funny, Greg. One of the one of the great joys of having made these these really joyful, exciting musical projects uh that I just randomly, you know, was assigned or or landed as a production designer, is that I hear from those kids, I hear from the versions of me that were that were excited by the Millennium Falcon. Fairly frequently, I probably get you know in the area of eight to twelve uh emails a month from which is crazy for a production designer, right? Like nobody knows who we are, nobody knows what we do. Ver uh very few people. So the fact that some young person, it's generally not children, it's generally uh, you know, young adults who are going into college, going into film school, maybe wanting to go into design, who will reach out to me and say, You, you know, high school musical changed my life. I identified with this character in the descendants, and the the world you created for her was so powerful to me. Can we talk about it? So I hear that all the time. And I know like Kenny Ortega hears it all the time. So uh the fact that the the sad little kid that still lives inside of me gets to kind of vicariously live through these young people who the man that I am has has excited that way is crazy. That's such a what a gift, you know, to what a healing process for somebody who did not have a happy time as a kid, and and seeing that I can that I have made happy times for kids that maybe were also you know in complicated lives.

Greg Staffa 34:49

And for someone that you know felt like he was alone and isolated to realize now that you aren't. I mean, it may have taken some time, but that has to be very rewarding.

Mark Hofeling 35:02

Incredibly, incredibly rewarding. And and so I'm I'm uh you know, I'm excited to do other projects than musicals because I feel like if I do another tween musical, I'm gonna jump out a window. But uh those are huge. That's not every career has something like that in it. You know, not every career has a marquee, not every career has a Star Wars, not every career has a you know, Hedwig in the Angry Inch, uh or high school musical. So it's it's it's very I'm very fortunate.

Mighty Ducks And A Secret Rink

Greg Staffa 35:36

I do have to admit, um having enjoyed Mighty Duck's Game Changer and realizing now that you did the pilot, I do have to give you credit as someone that lives in Minnesota. It's always interesting to see how Hollywood or Vancouver decides to treat us or have us look. And so the set design for the pilot and then the future episodes for Game Changer was pretty enjoyable. It's always fun to to see uh a Minnesota version in Vancouver of your home state.

Mark Hofeling 36:08

So did you did you feel did you feel respected by that?

Greg Staffa 36:11

I felt respected by that. Every once in a while you'll you'll see a show where they're like, that's really how they think we sound, or that's how they think we look or act, or it's it's always interesting when Hollywood tries to do Minnesota or the Midwest or or whatnot.

Mark Hofeling 36:27

So but hot hot damn, you know, the the big rink that I built in a in a sound stage was inspired. I I you know, Greg, I for the life of me, I couldn't tell you the name of it, but it was inspired by a beautiful old mid-century rink somewhere in Minnesota that had that kind of dark, you know, uh dark wood planking in it. And I just thought it was so beautiful. So yeah, we made we went to great pains. We actually tried to God, remind me the town it was. It was Minneapolis. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, I was just drawing a blank. But we tried to actually get old the advertising around the rink. I tried to base it on old Minneapolis businesses, but the ABC legal department wouldn't let me. Even defunct ones. So we we went to Great Pains to honor Minnesota there.

Greg Staffa 37:19

It's really sad. I I was really looking forward to it because Mighty Ducks here in Minnesota has a special place because the original I think one and two were filmed here, and then three they go to LA or whatnot. But right, it always holds a special place in our heart because it's filmed. I grew up in the Twin Cities, and so I grew up a lot of those locations, and now I'm about an hour away, but uh it holds a special place, and so to have the series come back, but it was marred by like you said, COVID. COVID really impacted, and then Emilio had there was some disagreements over the vaccine, I believe it was, and so he was kind of moved out of that role, and it just it was a thing that was just it was one of the earlier things that started bringing things or bringing shows back. It was, I mean, now it seems it's it's common to have the return of this show or the return of scrubs or the return of but having Amelia come back after all those years as Gordon Bombay really was a special thing, especially for here in Minnesota.

Mark Hofeling 38:23

Oh, that's very cool. I'll I'll tell you a real funny story about about that rink, real quick. So we built that rink, and we had we brought in a company from from Quebec to actually make the ice. It was real, it was a perfectly real hockey rink with real ice, and we laid down this whole glycol system with these massive chillers outside. It was a huge project to make that happen, right? And so we shot the pilot, then we all went home for for a break, and COVID happened. Well, Canada shut down all of its public facilities, like pools and rinks and rec cent, you know, gyms. And so there were no this hockey mad country, there were no rinks to for people to play on. Well, the government didn't know about our rink, so it was hidden back in this studio complex. So the producer uh has an old guy, like a hockey league he plays on, the local producer. So they had a secret rink that even had a Zamboni we'd bought to can truly condition the ice. You saw it in the in the show, it's what we painted it up to look like a busted old Zamboni. So they they had the only hidden rink in Canada, Canada where they could go play hockey, you know, once a week. So just one of those, one of those things. Well, we won't tell anyone. No, don't tell any just it's just you and me, right?

The LED Volume And Seeing Like A Designer

Greg Staffa 39:43

Yep. Uh wrapping things up because we're running out of time. I I have several more questions, but we're gonna have to cut it short, I guess. But one of the things I wanted to know was, you know, you came from or you you discovered this production design through Star Wars, which is very hands-on creative, and we talked about you know digital replacing things, but now there's been a whole new leap in the wall or the volume that now can create an entire backdrop of of stuff. Uh it's really taken a huge leap forward where you can act in front of uh a room that looks like it's a real room and walk around and move and the camera can follow it. Is that a threat or is that a new challenge to add to your quiver of what you have to deal with?

Mark Hofeling 40:32

Uh I you know what it is to me, Greg? It is a it is a live green screen. That's what I I think of as the volume as, right? Whereas actors used to be in front of a green screen and then in post we'd add all those that that that imagery and whatever it was behind them. Well, now it's there in the space. And I think that it's a that's a good thing versus green screen acting because actors hate being, you know, you've probably talked to actors that are just like, oh my god, being in a green room on a green box. What a it's horrible for them, right? They're they're they're creating a character live and to have to see what the the their world is means a lot. It's very useful. So I think it's it's a positive. I don't think it looks very good yet. And I think that we're doing what we always do with the new tech technology, which is over rely on it, jump in with both feet. Like we, you know, that's what visual effects was with the prequels, and then the the industry will eventually kind of pull back a bit. So I I think it's a net positive. We'll just see if you know, studios as they get cheaper and cheaper, try to replace every real thing in the world with with volume and visual effects. I hope not.

Greg Staffa 41:49

Interesting. I'm gonna wrap up one of my final questions into a kind of a group question here. But when you're going through your daily life, are you sketching things? Like if you come across, you know, you're walking down the street and you see a building, are you sketching it? Are you taking photographs of things to possibly use in other things or you know, future uses when you go to a movie? Are you able to separate yourself and enjoy the movie? Are you constantly looking at the sets around them or what they created? How does your day-to-day life impact when you go to the movies or just when you're thinking about set design?

Mark Hofeling 42:28

You know, it's it's funny. They I used to kind of take a ton of pictures as I walked around because I'm like, I can't forget that, I can't forget that, I can't forget that. And then I would I realized at some point in my career, I have this insane visual memory. I'm I don't have much, but I have this insane visual memory. So I I kind of stop taking pictures for the most part because I'll remember it for some reason. Uh and I used to sketch out stuff more, but it's the same thing. I kind of have this bizarre um, these folds of my brain, I tuck all these little scraps of the world into. And then when I watch a movie, thank God I can, even though my analytical mind is running and looking at how they did what, and oh my god, what a brilliant thing, how inventive. I can turn it off enough with my conscious brain to enjoy the film, which that would ruin my life if I couldn't enjoy watching movies anymore. So uh, but I'm always, always, always you know, recording things where every designer, every director, every actor is borrowing from other things and memories in their life, right? And and designers are no different.

When Great Work Goes Unseen

Greg Staffa 43:43

And again, wrapping things up because we're already going over, and I apologize for that. What's one of the most ridiculous amounts of work that you've put into you know a set or a design that just you are super proud of, but people just didn't notice it?

Mark Hofeling 44:00

You know, I the first movie I ever worked on was Halloween 5. And we I my job was working on the the sh, I don't know how well you remember that movie, but at the very beginning, Michael Myers washes up down this river and and uh uh is saved in this weird shack by this uh by this kind of uh strange eccentric person. Well, we had done we had made that shack to be this kind of shamanic, weird, wizardy place. And you can still find the the deleted scene, but the producer panicked and reshot it uh and pulled everything out of it and reshot it. And that was the first set I ever worked on. So when I saw the movie, it absolutely broke my heart that all that work and all the passion me as a 19-year-old kid poured into that place was gone. But it was a good lesson in in how movies work. It's a it's a team effort, and you know, it's not just about you. So, but it did break my heart.

Talking To The Kid Inside

Greg Staffa 45:05

Wow, two more quick questions, and then we'll wrap it up. A lot of your childhood, there's a lot of pain, it sounds like there's a lot of I mean, you still sound like you know, there it was some lingering stuff from your childhood, but then you talk about getting these letters from people that were inspired by your work and stuff like that. So things have clearly gotten better. The the scars are still there, but if you were to sit down with that child, you know, after seeing Star Wars and talk to him, what's something that you would tell him?

Mark Hofeling 45:39

It's that's so such a sweet question, Greg, and and I appreciate it. I have that conversation with that kid every day, and nothing makes me happier than showing him, you know, my life since then, Greg, has been ridiculous. It's been so amazing and so full of happiness and adventure and love. You know, I'm just coming up on 29 years with my husband. So I I talk to that kid every day, and you know, we've we've healed together. The scars are still there and they never go away, but they're so far in the rearview mirror now.

Greg Staffa 46:15

Nice. And last question is something I ask all my guests. So much of you is tied to the work that you've done. It's hard to say your name without seeing like high school musical or stuff like that. But when you get up in the morning and you go into the bathroom, splash a little water on your face, and look in the mirror, who is it that you see?

Mark Hofeling 46:35

I see that's that's really funny. I see a survivor who is more self-aware at 57 than he's ever been in his life. And uh I like what I see. Well said.

Greg Staffa 46:51

Well, Mark Puffling, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a true pleasure, and I sincerely look forward to seeing what your work has in the future for you.

Mark Hofeling 46:59

Thanks so much, Greg. It was a pleasure. I'd be happy to come back anytime.